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Thread: LL card values

  1. #11
    Senior Member Anasia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxi1230 View Post
    In the end let's take a look at the "Stop Nerfs" Thread again. In my opinion there is no "right" or "wrong" balance, there are just people who prefer particular gameplay.
    For example the ratio I set up:
    There are people who would like most cards to be on level 2 to have strong cards that can change the game in any particular situation and probably lead to very fast paced games. Some might like tribe decks or decks that have another interesting synergy who would like most cards to be at level 1. Some would like all cards to be at level 0: A broad variety of cards at the same level to allow a lot of different decks and styles, with no card being a vast amount stronger than the others. People who like cards at level -1 like games that depend more on the strategy than on strong cards. Worse cards mean slower and more thoughtful Gameplay, with no card being uncounterable, but also no surprise factors.
    No one likes -2 cards I think though :P .
    We have many overpowered cards from CoTC and DP (and many underpowered too). As long as they are not changed it's pointless to talk about cards on the same level and broad variety of decks...

  2. #12
    Senior Member renew's Avatar
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    "Racksul: Warped Desert - this card is not useful because it depends on the opposing deck; Oppenent gets good draw + can get your key cards;
    Rating -2; After the nerf it cannot be exploited anymore by unlimited ability recursal with Wizent's Prayer, which makes sense, but now it has no reason to be played;"

    Aren't cards in a graveyard considered as still owned? If that's the case, you could still use your opponent's graveyard to get cards back.

  3. #13
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    Agreed. They should change nd update older set cards to match current gameplay.

  4. #14
    Senior Member maxi1230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renew View Post
    "Racksul: Warped Desert - this card is not useful because it depends on the opposing deck; Oppenent gets good draw + can get your key cards;
    Rating -2; After the nerf it cannot be exploited anymore by unlimited ability recursal with Wizent's Prayer, which makes sense, but now it has no reason to be played;"

    Aren't cards in a graveyard considered as still owned? If that's the case, you could still use your opponent's graveyard to get cards back.
    Sure, but did you ever use Gravedigger's Cloak? And this seems like an even costlier combo.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxi1230 View Post
    Sure, but did you ever use Gravedigger's Cloak? And this seems like an even costlier combo.
    In that way Thoughtripper's Cutlass is a crappy card too cause youīre stealing only opponentīs cards and you rely in what your opponent has.
    I agree that the opponent ability should be revaluated so itīs not better than your ability, but you can perfectly build your deck around exiling stuff from your opponent, and it can easily be buffed as a playstyle with future cards.

  6. #16
    Chat Mod Kip thorp's Avatar
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    I've never celebrated my post counts, but if I did, I hope mine could be as cool, yet less time consuming as Maxi's!

    Congrats bro, good write up!
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  7. #17
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    "Twilight Luminary - this card is not useful because it can give Haste to only exactly three different allies, all being weenies.
    Twilight Luminary - this card is useful because its stats are quite decent; it can search allies;
    Rating: -1; after the nerf it lost some of its magic. Definitely not that usable anymore competetively."

    "Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is not useful because it costs 1 SE to search a twilight ally + you have to kill one of your allies; So you lose the board advantage of the Ally and of your hero ability; oppenent gets a free buff to all of his allies;
    Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is useful because it is a good search engine;
    Rating -1; The card takes too much for what it gives;"

    Seek is one of the most powerful and synergetic abilities nowadays. I donīt think any card with seek deserves a rank below 0 unless itīs too costly (over 2SE or 2cc in my opinion), and specially now that Lorhon: Twilight Encampment is not exiled and you can rely on it staying in board, which was its biggest issue.

  8. #18
    Senior Member BP Holy Punisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxi1230 View Post
    Asyn: Mount Kazarr - this card is not useful because you need a damaged ravager ally first to make use of this card; oppenent gets a stronger effect in most cases, free pseudo haste is quite strong;
    Asyn: Mount Kazarr - this card is useful because you could deny oppenent's effect with Stealth for example; most ravager allies want to get damaged anyways;
    Rating -1; as long as there is no way to constantly damage a ravager ally on the turn it enters play this card remains a rather fun to use but not competitive usable card;
    We do have now, Zealot and Crucible enter as damage allies
    It could be interesting to try this location again.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member maxi1230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Punisher View Post
    We do have now, Zealot and Crucible enter as damage allies
    It could be interesting to try this location again.
    Oh right I did miss that. Hmm might make it usable. I'll change it go 0 for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    "Twilight Luminary - this card is not useful because it can give Haste to only exactly three different allies, all being weenies.
    Twilight Luminary - this card is useful because its stats are quite decent; it can search allies;
    Rating: -1; after the nerf it lost some of its magic. Definitely not that usable anymore competetively."

    "Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is not useful because it costs 1 SE to search a twilight ally + you have to kill one of your allies; So you lose the board advantage of the Ally and of your hero ability; oppenent gets a free buff to all of his allies;
    Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is useful because it is a good search engine;
    Rating -1; The card takes too much for what it gives;"

    Seek is one of the most powerful and synergetic abilities nowadays. I donīt think any card with seek deserves a rank below 0 unless itīs too costly (over 2SE or 2cc in my opinion), and specially now that Lorhon: Twilight Encampment is not exiled and you can rely on it staying in board, which was its biggest issue.

    Well imo 2SE for one card, depending on Luminary staying on board is not that great. It's secondary isn't useful too. I'd stay with the -1.
    You're right about the location if it only was for the positive effect. The oppenent effect is indeed strong though and especially since you lose your ability advantage I'd still rate it -1.
    It's subjective here I guess how much you value Search of allies, which seems that you value more than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    In that way Thoughtripper's Cutlass is a crappy card too cause youīre stealing only opponentīs cards and you rely in what your opponent has.
    I agree that the opponent ability should be revaluated so itīs not better than your ability, but you can perfectly build your deck around exiling stuff from your opponent, and it can easily be buffed as a playstyle with future cards.
    The difference is hand disruption. Messing with an oppenent's hand is powerful since it destroys his plans. On top of that it has value as a Weapon since it can deal damage on its own unlile Gravedigger's Cloak or this combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasia View Post
    We have many overpowered cards from CoTC and DP (and many underpowered too). As long as they are not changed it's pointless to talk about cards on the same level and broad variety of decks...
    I think that is not true. Shattered Fates added a lot of playstyles to heroes that were only playable in a particular way before, Haste Shard Zal for example. With more cards released it is to be expected to see even more.
    Last edited by maxi1230; 04-01-2016 at 08:23 AM.

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  10. #20
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    Great job Maxi. I agree that only some LL cards make it into deck that is not tribal (sabreen, grounshift, yahari, troll) and if you dont play tribal LL expansion seems kind of useless
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