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  1. #21
    DP Visionary Mongoosey's Avatar
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    Coming back to the game fresh, my observations on the 5.

    1. Embers - NPE. Seriously, I'm not one to quit a match once I'm matched, but I get a sick feeling whenever I see a Jericho come up.

    2. Caged - fine.

    3. Troll - could be improved with a weakness. One I like the history of (D&D) is that if troll killed with fire damage, it stays dead.

    4. Yarhari - fine. Though not sure I like the lands yet. I favour a game mechanic where instead of land cards, you have a game type...like Meltdown, where opponents enter and certain creatures, spells mechanics etc are effected by the 'land' you have randomly entered. (Trademark that to Mongoosey).

    5. Not played enough to comment on other cards yet, but all cards I play with at the time I play with them need a buff. 😎
    "I'll have you know I have the reflexes of a cat, and the speed of a mongoose"

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  2. #22
    Chat Mod Burnout1985's Avatar
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    1) a very very npe in my opinion, jericho makes me doing very bad things ingame. The big problem is that the most heroes have nothing to deal with him [ and I am totally agree with what Cait said]

    2) this card is fine, i havent seen this ally so much ingame

    3) troll is fine, a little bit annoying at the beginning but now its so easy to deal with him

    4) this location is fine as well, perhaps 4se is better

    5) i don't really like general of unaxio, this card makes jericho and solo gwen so powerfull
    Last edited by Burnout1985; 03-20-2016 at 12:49 AM.

  3. #23
    plo
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    1. To what extent do you think Embers of the Justicon is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    Embers is balanced, it is neither undercosted, nor broken. And most of the time it isn't NPE either, it is NPE only when the opponent deck doesn't has many allies and/or is a defensive deck with little agression.

    Jerry has far too much ally removal, he has the best board wipe in the entire game(Tidal Wave), it is the universal board wipe in the sense that it will always clean the board regardless of the situation(Energy Discharge Requires you to have an ally and Super Nova only kills allies with <5 health), and most of the time he comes with Banish or Zail's Hymn as well.

    Let's imagine player A and player B are playing a competitive match, player A is playing Jerry and player B is playing any hero whatsoever. It is very likely player B will be using a 40 cards deck, just like most competitive decks do, and the match will last a long time, due to Jerry's Tidal Wave's and his healing. Player B will have about 20 allies in his deck, 4 of them are going to be sacrificed, 8 of them are going to be destroyed by Tidal Wave(Tidal Wave usually kills 2 allies, and Jerry is unlikely to sac it), and 4 of them are going to be dealt with by Zail's Hymn/Banish. The remaining 4 allies might be killed by other means. This example above illustrate something that I experience sometimes, the game goes to a point I have no more allies in my deck, and it is likely to happen if you play against Jerry.

    To show Jerry has so much more ally removal than he should, let me compare him with Eladwen. A competitive Eladwen might run 4 Super Nova, 4 Firebal, and 2 Transmogrification Curse, compare her with A Jerry running 4 Tidal Wave, 4 Zail's Hymn , 2 Banish, and the Embers/Lingering Essence combo. Tidal Wave is clearly more efficient than Nova at killing allies, and Eladwen will never use Nova 4 times, by that time the game will definitely be over!! Zail's Hymn inutilizes allies regardless of their health, whereas Fireball's damage might not be enough to get rid of the ally. Banish is as efficient as Curse. And on long run each 3SE of Jerry will imply 4 damage, whereas Eladwen will be spending 4SE to deal that much damage. And to make things worse I am comparing Jerry with Eladwen, most heroes don't even a efficient board wipe and have to get rid of allies individually.

    I like Embers a lot, it is different from the other cards and the one which makes Jerry competitive and fun to play with. It's NPE/non interactive aspect comes from the fact that it takes aways the opponent's means of destroying you, it isn't fun to have no ally on board and know that the only ally you have on your hand is going to be destroyed if you summon it. You will have to wait until you have a 7 health or more ally, and hope he will last long enough to deal considerable damage.

    From what I said up to now, it appears the best way to correct Embers would be to reduce it's capacity to destroy allies, how about:

    2cc: Attach to target opposing ally (no ablaze). If Embers of the Just is targeted and destroyed on your turn, it is returned to your hand, target hero or ally is disabled for 2 turns and target opposing hero or ally takes 3 arcane damage.

    2cc: Attach to target opposing ally and that ally is set ablaze. If Embers of the Just is targeted and destroyed on your turn, it is returned to your hand, your hero heals 3 health, and target opposing hero or ally takes 2 arcane damage.

    2cc: Attach to target opposing ally (no ablaze). If Embers of the Just is targeted and destroyed on your turn, it is returned to your hand, templars allies cost 1 less resource until the end of the turn, and target opposing hero or ally takes 4 arcane damage.

    2cc: Attach to target opposing ally and that ally is set ablaze. If Embers of the Just is targeted and destroyed on your turn, it is returned to your hand, damage dealt to your hero is reduced by 1 until the end of your turn, and target opposing hero or ally takes 2 arcane damage.


    2. To what extent do you think Caged Savage is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    I have neither used this card, nor played against someone using this card, but it is clearly undercosted!! It's power level should be similar to the other 1cc cards(Rottling, Twilight Herald). And it opens so much possible OP combos that it severely restricts the possible cards that can be created.


    3. To what extent do you think Eternal Troll is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    He is fine, I never had any problem with him.


    4. To what extent do you think Yahari: Valley of Doom is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    Never used it, and don't remenber playing against someone using it. It is not much used because all competitive decks use 3cc allies, and it's effect damage the user as well as the opponent, it is not very competitive overall. And I hope this card doesn't become competitive! It makes the match much longer than it should, and it's nature is NPE/non interactive because it takes away the opponent's means of destroying you, also it completely screws certain types of decks(why can't someone make a competitive deck using only 3cc or less allies? Should he lose the match only because his opponent was luck enough to include Yahari?)


    5. Please list any other cards you think might be undercosted, broken or NPE.

    Thriss Crucible used in Zal Shard, it is a very specific and annoying deck, playing with/against him feels like flipping a coin to see if you have a good matchup. I also include Nishave and Praxix as NPE, all my decks have have 40 cards 17~20 of which are allies. Sometimes the match goes to the point I have no more allies in my deck.
    Last edited by plo; 03-20-2016 at 01:03 AM.

  4. #24
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    1. Embers are just NPE. I don't even think that Embers itself are the problem, but it's interaction with Lingering essence (and partially CoF). Without LE you can at least hope to rush Jerri and win (with ally based decks), but when Jerri starts his loop of Embers - killing your ally or damaging hero, gaining SE and healing himself and drawing a card with CoF you're in big trouble and there is huge number of decks which have no way of dealing with Jerri, just hoping for bad draw. Embers Jerri is an idea of a person who wants to seriously punish people playing ally decks, you simple have no way to win, just to watch as you are killed.

    2. I don't think it is any of that, haven't seen him used much

    3. None of that, just very good card which is annoying. He is good in certain situations and terrible in other

    4. I am undecided on this one. Probably undercosted since it's opposite ability actually helps. If opp uses its ability to switch sides you actually can draw, and I\ve seen people who want just that. Opp side giving draw 2 cards and exiling location would be probably better.

  5. #25
    Senior Member oggtheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    and put you on my Naughty list.
    Fairly certain I'm already on that, its cool.
    (I am going to edit in my answers, let me read the thread first)



    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Stop stealing my damn jokes... At least you didn't say boomerang, then you would be a definite copy.


    Now, on to answers

    1. To what extent do you think Embers of the Just is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    NPE x 1000000000. I heard other people saying this so it must be true. I've never faced it pre rating 220 where I live though

    2. To what extent do you think Caged Savage is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    That's the ravager 1 cost right? It sucks. Why would I ever use this card? It's got 0 attack that's 0 damage to opponents face. Obviously terrible.
    3. To what extent do you think Eternal Troll is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    Never gonna give him up, never gonna let him down. ***moderated*** It's fine. It's a 2/4 for 3, with possible added value if the person playing against it is an idiot.

    4. To what extent do you think Yahari: Valley of Doom is undercosted, broken or NPE?

    Haha locations. Don't be silly, I don't use any as none of them work in boomerang therebin.

    5. Please list any other cards you think might be undercosted, broken or NPE.

    Nathanias. 7 cost 5/8 summon a viska ( when my opponent plays it) or a 7 cost 5/8 that draws me a blood frenzy when I already have one if I play it.

    THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CO-OPERATION!
    it's fine m8
    Last edited by danae; 03-21-2016 at 11:22 PM. Reason: removed attack on a person
    A member of ETC.
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  6. #26
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    1. Embers are NPE. Its not possible to tech your deck against it , but all you can do is change hero to sb who beats jeri

    2.Caged Savage is fine. He needs you to invest on him in order to be useable and he wont be before t3.

    3. Eternal Troll becomes no use for a turn with 2 dmg. So even if you cant kill it this turn. Also if exiled its gone. There are many ways to take care of it

    4. Yahari exiles every ally on board with cost 3 or less for 3 shadow energy , which seems fair. It takes deck space and is only useable if you have no board presence and opponent is swarming you plush takes precious SE

    5. Nothing else seems to be overpowered needing a nerf. I can think of many needing a buff but dont think its the appripriate thread

  7. #27
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    1. too consistent and cheap. make it shuffle into deck.
    2. dont see it much.
    3. too strong. make its ability only work on enemy turn.
    4. one of the best new cards. it gives heroes with no board wipe a chance against rush and board flooding. but maybe nerf with all friendly allies are exiled. that way you cant have your 4+ allies survive. might balance it a bit if people think it is op.

    also very sneaky of oggman to take a jab at me and indirectly calling me an idiot. someone needs to read the first post and learn some manners.
    Last edited by mindy; 03-21-2016 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #28
    Asia Regionals Champion 2015 Halalboy's Avatar
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    1) Embers is undercosted and mostly NPE. Maybe it is the synergy it has with lingering essence and COF. If COF and lingering is already on jerry, he can easily steam roll you by using embers, so in a way, 4se allows you to heal 3, draw, deal 4 damage and gain one se, plus this combo can be done by turn 4. I remember a suggestion about using own allies as a launching pad for embers. this will force jerry to actually fight for the board and not just punish you for playing allies coz that's what embers do. U still cant interact with embers much but at least the conditions do not punish u for playing allies, which most decks are all about.

    2) Havent seen caged savage much but I could see it be a problem in elementalis and exaltation. other than that no comment.

    3) Troll is versatile and fine. Weak t3 play but its strong in some situations or matchups. Plus I like the combos that can be done with his 'kill me twice' ability.

    4) Yahari is undercosted maybe 4se wud be better. Plus opponent with shadow font(the ones who usually use yahari) cant easily flip the location back and exile ur allies after u gain control of it. he needs that extra SE and u have a few turns to react. Of course he can play another yahari.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member msaf's Avatar
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    1) Embers of the Just is NPE. All loops are troublesome, this one is very strong and uncounterable barring allyless play.

    3) Eternal Troll is not a problem, though it is very strong for a neutral card, that makes it annoyingly ubiquitious.

    5) Racksul: Warped Desert. Bringing back exiled cards is against basic setup of the game.
    It turns exile into another graveyard, that is cheap, and, more importantly, exile used to be safe disposal of cards that should not stay around, like Eternal Renewal was not really eternal. I would expect ugly workarounds in the future.

  10. #30
    Junior Member Piercing Serenity's Avatar
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    1. Embers of The Just is NPE due to a lack of opportunity to interact with it. If Jericho plays correctly, you can't play allies without having both your resources wasted and taking damage.

    2. No comment

    3. No Problem with the card. I think it should be re-worded to read "Once per turn..." to be more clear. And ideas to allow opposing players interact with the ability (Killing Eternal Troll with Fire Damage kills it for good), sounds interesting

    4. No comment

    5. I would like to see Mind Control become an attachment (like Coercion is), so that opposing Warriors and Mages have a way to prevent an ally from being mind controlled (Casting A Legend Rises). Specifically, I think this creates a better player experience without severely compromising Mind Control; Only one ally can be protected at any given time, so Mind control is still a significant threat.

    Cards like Jasmine Rosecult which have a "Charm" ability should be updated to "Disable". I have personally played games where my opponent played Dakrath, and I banked on Jasmine's ability wording to apply anyway. This only works because of how old a card Jasmine is.

    I think Yari Spearman should get +1 attack and health for other Yari allies in play, but I'm not pulling for that super strongly.

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