Gondorian: do you plan to change Embers?

[Anasia]

I hear you - that is part of it. Even without that though, Embers can return to hand, set ablaze, deal 4 damage to hero, cause another draw, and boost SE.

A good fix is Embers 4 damage can only target allies. Leave all the mechanics alone. Just stops Jerry being able to win with Embers. Has to do something else. And i can interact with that something else, in a way i cannot with Embers.

I think a large part of the problem is that you cannot interact to stop Embers. It comes out, causes ablaze, deals 4 damage to hero, plus anything extra (heal, SE, draw etc.) and is gone before you can do anything. And then happens the same next turn.

Being able to do damage only to allies will kill the whole concept, it is literally makes Jericho shadow ability worse than Eladwen's, even worse than Logan's. To do 4 damage to an ally once in 4 turns using the only specific card, sure everyone would want to play it...

[Umbra7]

Being able to do damage only to allies will kill the whole concept, it is literally makes Jericho shadow ability worse than Eladwen's, even worse than Logan's. To do 4 damage to an ally once in 4 turns using the only specific card, sure everyone would want to play it...

Ehh, i disagree. It's still plenty usable. And i wouldnt copare to eladwen. It's not worse....it's just different. But making embers only target allies means that jericho himself will also have to using allies, or weapons. I can support that, and it would probably solve a lot of the negative playing experience so many people have centering around the card

[tafkad]

TLDR: The fact it is on the DT's watch list and moving up seems to indicate there may be some change due or in store. This card and deck may not be dominating any meta especially in the higher ranks but it is dominating the NPE meta for a lot of folks and most likely why it is on the radar for now.

For the diehards:

Being able to do damage only to allies will kill the whole concept, it is literally makes Jericho shadow ability worse than Eladwen's, even worse than Logan's. To do 4 damage to an ally once in 4 turns using the only specific card, sure everyone would want to play it...

He has more than one way to destroy embers and more ways to gain SE than just 1 a turn - your contradicting statement (read below) is an "on paper" assessment as if there is no way to do it more than 1 in 4 turns which is not the case because in practice if you look at what most everyone says about "if you play an ally based deck vs Jembers good luck" you'd see he is demolishing most ally decks with his combo using it to kill your Hero, or this one "Just don't play allies against him" that is the one that shows the problem - it's not because your allies die but because he can target your Hero while healing himself in a never ending cycle and killing your allies. If it was only 1 in 4 turns then no one would have an issue with it at all when in fact he has ways to do it three times in a turn - which he will still have and still be able to keep the critters at bay while healing in a never ending cycle.

That's all the same power for board control without using only TW to clear it which means he can have allies too. Templar builds will suit Jer the most and as Trev stated the idea is to force him to use other ways to directly damage the Hero. When Jer faces a solo hero embers is no good already so that is it's weakness. This would not kill embers for him just make him find a different way to damage the hero (like he needs to vs solo Heroes now). His shadow ability is unchanged so not sure why that came up. He will still have access to priest draw engines that use SE as well just like Zhanna and Threbin with Staff and Chalice.

Below:

The problem can be solved if add an additional condition to Embers "Embers of the Just can't be targeted by its controller the turn it was summoned". This way it can't be spammed several times during one turn, and give opponent an opportunity to deal with it. Sorcerer of Endia and Vermin would be a very good piece of tech against Jerry.

I noticed your reference to spamming "several times in a turn" as in "more than 1 in 4 turns" the contradiction is what may me reply to your last post, no offense meant. That you are concerned enough to chime in is a good thing (returned at end of turn would do what you are after as far as spamming) - Can't target turn summoned, now this would make it total jank worthless. Not only would you not be doing damage to the Hero, no damage to allies, no healing, no recasting, no anything really since then everyone could just eliminate it sooooo many ways. Not just target the embers you know since you can also bounce your ally to hand, sac the critter for a good cause etc.

There was a time when Jer was doing well without embers too, just that now he has become so one dimensional and how long can that last or be good to have? at some point he will need to grow with new cards and right now he will always have troubles letting go of his "crutch" It can still be a staple card for Jer just not the only win condition which makes for better Jember players since they will have to think more and use more variety in deck builds.

[Megas Alexandros]

Jembers is the reason I have stopped playing SE for quite some time although I check the forums every day. To me it feels like Jembers =Negative Player Experience to the max. Hopefully it will change..i wait also anxiously for the campaign

[bobrossw]

In an effort to focus this discussion a bit I put up a poll, feel free to stop by.

[tafkad]

In an effort to focus this discussion a bit I put up a poll, feel free to stop by.

Kind of an odd poll there, "The fact that it is hard to interact with making me feel helpless against it" the non interaction is really the issue (otherwise I'd guess there would be no talk about it at all) though to change that would kill the card since he needs to use it right away for it to be useful no matter what the target of the damage (hero or allies) that choice in other words seems like it is not needed in your poll but more of the basis for the discussion.

The choices about damage to allies vs heroes as to the 2 deck types you've ID'd is more of a look into which form of non interaction bugs a person the most, so they would be valid choices, along with "I don't have a problem with it"

Those 3 choices would home in on solutions -

choice 1 stop the hero damage because I can't interact with it
choice 2 stop the ally control because I can't interact with it - kill the card (only result of messing with it's ally interaction)
choice 3 leave it alone because I don't care if I can't interact with it

imho choice 2 is not an option if the card is to stay usable

[anakarIsia]

To me the bigger problem or at least as big is lingering essense.

I agree with that opinion.
I think, embers of the Jet is not Op but lingeling essense is OP.

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

I agree with that opinion.
I think, embers of the Jet is not Op but lingeling essense is OP.

Yeahm indidnt realize its a dark prophecies which mean it cannot be touched.

[trevorJacobs]

Lingering Essence was not a problem until Embers of the Just came along ...