Gondorian: do you plan to change Embers?

**trevorJacobs** · 02-19-2016, 08:30 PM

Hello forum!

Open letter to Gondorian

Are there any plans to change Embers of the Just

?

I ask because, when I read through the forums, it makes lots of people sad. It's not OP. I don't claim that.

However, it feels a bit wrong that there is this one card that exists only to do just that one trick with Jerry. It's like a buff to his ability. It's never seen anywhere else. I love combos made from cards that work independently, and shine together. Embers is not this: it's a trick.

Further, it's a trick that you know is coming and can't really defend against. It's all over within Jerry's turn.

I contend that SE would be a better game if this was removed.

I'd like to know if it's still on the watch list, and what your plans are (if any).

Thank you!

**trevorJacobs** · 02-19-2016, 08:51 PM

For examples of the sentiment I reference, see:

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....rs-of-the-Just

**tafkad** · 02-19-2016, 09:19 PM

It does seem like 4 dam for 2cc as an essentially repeatable fireball is a little much (yes it uses SE too but what else does he need it for?), even if it was 3 dam it might be easier to swallow? but then it would not do in so many critters even though it would still do 4 since they are set ablaze which makes me ask how many other ways is there to kill 5 health allies for 2cc? the ones that come to mind have restrictions as to the allies they can kill - embers has no restrictions other than can't keep burning fireproof allies (and there's so many of them....) I don't know if it will get changed as there was a lot of discussion on it long ago but a slight tap from the nerf-bat might help some of the unhappy folk

On the other side of the issue, maybe there is a future card that will help soften the embers blast for more of the heroes having troubles against it? some kind of card in play (item, ability, ally) that deals damage to an opponent every time an enchantment is destroyed. I dunno but he did not win the WC with his trick so must not be that consistent?

Good question, I am interested to hear what G has to say, among others of course

**trevorJacobs** · 02-19-2016, 11:05 PM

Make damage to allies only might fix it

**tafkad** · 02-19-2016, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by trevorJacobs

Make damage to allies only might fix it

hmm actually would be not bad, keeps it strong on the board but pushes him to use other means (weapons and allies) to do you in. Hate to see him loose his new toy but that is a pretty decent idea that lets him keep it and use it where he needed it all along, as in an alt to TW for board removal.

**Caitlyn0** · 02-19-2016, 11:15 PM

its worse than millstaker, at least you can tech against millstalker.

**Thiede** · 02-19-2016, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Caitlyn0

its worse than millstaker, at least you can tech against millstalker.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think I have ever hated playing against a deck more than I hate playing against Jembers.

**Demnchi** · 02-20-2016, 12:34 AM

Ever since that other thread popped up I've actually been playing Ember's Jericho

to get a feel for it so I can hopefully contribute to the discussion here. I wouldn't say I've played a large amount of games, and even still my low rating skews any actual data on its balance level. So I really won't talk about rather or not its in need of a balance change, I simply don't have that experience under my belt yet. I was going to refrain from speaking up at all yet, but this thread is sorta pushing me to talk about my current observations at the very least.

I once played against an Ember's Jericho

as Elementalis

. I played normally until I realized that playing allies was actually causing me to lose. So I simply passed all my turns expecting the game to end in a draw. With no allies, he couldn't play embers and he couldn't finish me off. With a full hand, I could never die to an empty deck. He did eventually force me to play more allies because he eventually played Eriss Fateweaver

that I needed to stop and I had foolishly ran out of control.

Since playing the deck, I've seen this behavior in my opponents as well. Playing allies against this deck gives them the tools to beat you. My opponent clearly had the foresight that having an alternative way to end the game was needed, beyond the obvious trick that Eriss

can do in the deck, because he didn't accept the draw. Decks which can end the game without playing allies (Weapon based heroes and Mages specifically) win against Ember with complete ease. Meanwhile, decks that play allies tend to get completely stomped, the only exception being Weenie rush AND i was unfortunate enough not to draw Tidal Wave

or Zail's Hymn. The only decks I've seen that have an actually good match, tend to be Rush Mages that stop playing allies after a certain point. (EDIT: It's worth noting I haven't fought any card stealing decks quite yet. Praxix

was tough too)

What I'm trying to get at is the reason Ember's is so hated is because it leads to a frustrating state for many decks, that trying to win actively makes them lose. When combined with the other control tools, allies are close worthless against the deck, most of them anyways. While I hesitate to say that Ember's is unfair (I haven't played enough to say so), I will say that I can understand the frustration. The combo itself is satisfying to use, but I don't know that its satisfying to be on the other side of that table.

Embers doesn't make the game more interesting for their opponents, it makes it less engaging in many cases. That is most likely the real issue, but feel free to tell me otherwise. I'd love to be wrong here, means I've got a lot to learn yet and I've been having fun with trying to learn more of this kind of stuff lately.