Sabreen

[R34P3R]

I had made a few edits to the op as you quoted it. I acknowledged a few of those things.

[bobrossw]

no one is comparing to corpse shifter...seems like the most obvious comparison

Corpse shifter
2 more health - 6hp is nothing to sneeze at
earliest damage - turn 5
telegraphed - gives opponent a chance to respond
free usage of ability - after the first time, it's a better deal than Sabreen
A good play regardless of board state - opponent responds, but 6hp is a lot.
can combo with grave resistance making 6hp even harder to kill.

Sabreen
can use as a 3cc ally without ability - so potentially cheaper than corpse shifter
more expensive ability than corpse shifter
ability doesn't require specific type of discard.
Can damage an ally turn 4
haste gives ability to reclaim the board if you lost it
haste gives option for a slightly later start / conditional haste means you shouldn't play a 2cc or 3cc ally with it.
fewer hps than corpse shifter
Unique means you can't play multiples from hand - if you draw many and depend on it, you're clogging up your hand.
Bad play with a full board or disabled allies.

[R34P3R]

He is narrowed into undead theme, which is still kind of weak. He is much slower. If she got narrowed to discarding Templars only and cost 4 she would be balanced. Unique keeps her haste in check. Haste means she needs the lower stats.

[jacqui]

The 2 comparisons Krygon and Corpse Shifter.

Krygon can help in retaking a lost board. However, he has 1 hp so after the board is retaken, it is easily lost again. Additionally, once on the board, his maximum damage output is 3, while Sabreen is 5. Almost all allies in the game have more than 3 HP, further making it harder for him to keep a board.

Corpse Shifter cannot help in retaking a lost board (per-se) due to it not having any haste. Once on the board, it can be potentially stronger than Sabreen with 2 more health and a lower activation cost. However, it is restricted to Undead. Meaning one must have 2 Undead allies in hand in order to push the board that turn.

Sabreen is best of both worlds. It not only helps in retaking a lost board, but is strong in keeping it by itself.

I am unsure at this time if a nerf is "needed" but it could definitely survive a small one and still be playable.

[bobrossw]

He is narrowed into undead theme, which is still kind of weak.

Undead has never been weak. It's still got a lot of excellent cards. It's still getting played competitively by multiple heroes.

[Anonymos]

Compaired to behemoth, behemoth costs 2 more and has 1 more attack and health, but not the conditional haste, or the unique. Then sabreen ability costs 1 cc and a card to do 3 dmg. behemoth costs 3 cc , and no other card for 4 dmg.
Compaired to krygon , they cost the same, but krygon is not unique or conditional haste which makes it way stronger in late game.
Then, abilities cost the same but krygons is increasing an ally's dmg which remains until ally dies, or dmges opposing ally, requiring no other card.
So basically sabreen is great for regaining the board but useless if you already have allies there (even disabled ones), plush you have to discard a card if you want to use ability, which in many cases may cost .

Let garth have some fun, shadow heroes get everything

[A1 Otto7]

The biggest mistake with card judging is to compare with other cases that seem obvious but arent

1) krygon. Not tribal and unsituational haste. Krygon is a weak 2/1 and isnt good for its side ability but for its haste no matter what that can go with all haste-based heroes. Same with FFM. 1/5 is equal to 2/4 (less aggro, better survivability to see T4. Almost equal and typical stats both). So their stats are equal. FFM is not unique and has a pseudo draw 1cc ability that lets u dig to your deck. Sabreen is unique (bad synergy with own stealth or dmg reduction allies who usually stick around) and has no active ability available at T3 just like FFM

2) shifter. Diferent stats for diferent costs. Both with typical costs for their stuff. Equal abilities. Sabreen pays 1cc cause she is by 1cc cheaper ally so the same ability comes for more expensive. Binus that she can discard more stuff than only allies. Shifter gets the benefit that Undead are very relevant and dependent from GY situation. Ofc it would be a mistake to judge an ally by its current potential (just like Ascetic was crap when it came out but now it seems it can stick to the whole plan of Aldmor in some ways. Still not great but people started seeing that SE cost ismt so big when it comes with SE acceleration

So lets judge Sabreen alone.
2/4 is typical
Haste is a great bonus that is hindered by its big disadvantage of needing to be alone and the uniqueness
Its ability is well costed cause it empties the hand. I do fear of a future big conbo with templar discard archetypes but exact same thing was feared for templars since forever. In Garth she did find a great way to coexist not cause she is OP but cause Garth has a way to not play T2 ally but playing smth reliable and strengthen his draw abilities , hitlist. Same could happen with Ythan and gambit (wait what? Nerf Ythan ��)

Anyway Sabreen is like those cards that everyone sees that are gonna be autoincludes. Same like Gargs, DM, Krygons (ofc it depends on the archetype). This, while other cards seem from the beginning that they are more relevant to specific builds (like Flamespitter etc)

All in all: a very strong card , autoinclude for many decks but not OP as we see of the meta now. Ofc we will keep an eye on it

[jonmaciel]

Sabreen is tricky to judge. Nice play on an empty board, and OK if you have allies on board. I think a nerf in its health would relegate it to being useless period if you have allies on board.

[Umbra7]

Let garth have some fun, shadow heroes get everything

Are we playing the same game? Shadow heros have a couole weaknesses humans dont have to worry about. Near as i can tell, garth gets everything. The only thing he didnt have was ally recursion, and now he has that too. As a class, rogues really are in a great place

I would also like somebody to try and defend sabreen from a power creep standpoint. Nobody who thinks sabreen is fine as she is has addressed that yet.

[Anonymos]

Are we playing the same game? Shadow heros have a couole weaknesses humans dont have to worry about. Near as i can tell, garth gets everything. The only thing he didnt have was ally recursion, and now he has that too. As a class, rogues really are in a great place

I would also like somebody to try and defend sabreen from a power creep standpoint. Nobody who thinks sabreen is fine as she is has addressed that yet.

Didnt mean it from a power point. Most decks that are fun to play are shadow, and always where. human cards havent been as creative as shadow where. There are both human and shadow heroes on both top and lowest tier, but more enjoyable decks are usually shadow at least imo