Casting / ability pre-requisites

[trevorJacobs]

If there are two targets and you can't do the first, then simple logic dictates that the second can't happen.

Do they all work that way? Brakkong, Wulven Rally, Abomination Factory all have the same structure but work differently...

[trevorJacobs]

Ok - I was writing some resonses as you posted yours - apologies for overlap!

Looks like the inconsistency is a known but low-priority issue. Fair enough.

I'll end by saying that there are lots of these 'rough around the edges' rulings that are never documented which is (one of many reasons) why people can get frustrated.

Don't get me wrong - I love the game! Hence my passion to get it right

[trevorJacobs]

Yes, because you still want as much of the effect as possible.

I guess I'm saying "as much of the effect as possible" includes moving a card out of your hand to make room for draw, destroying an item to make you invulnerable to Sorceror of Endia, or triggering Io Void Leviathan or Darklight Apprentice.

[trevorJacobs]

I'm willing to review all the wordings to try to make as clear as possible, and potentially update the code too to keep it consistent. But it's not high on my priority list though, I'm afraid.

Understood - at least the missing colon in Abomination Factory should be easy to add

[Ross013]

You can cast All Hope Is Lost even if the opponent's deck is not empty; Here Be Monsters can be cast if the opponent has fewer resources.

But Honored Dead cannot be cast if there are not three allies in graveyard. Is that because the first two have other effects?

If that's all it is ... Then it's inconsistent! Because casting the spell is an effect in itself! You might want to destroy Obelisk of Echoes or Tombstone Beacon, pump Io Void Leviathon, get rid of Honored Dead in hand (to draw for example).

All those can be cast because they have an effect that doesn't require things to be true, and I believe this includes honoured dead (I may have this confused with another card though). Essentially the draw a card part is an extra effect, so if you don't do the first part, it's basically like the card just reads 'draw a card' etc

[trevorJacobs]

All those can be cast because they have an effect that doesn't require things to be true, and I believe this includes honoured dead (I may have this confused with another card though). Essentially the draw a card part is an extra effect, so if you don't do the first part, it's basically like the card just reads 'draw a card' etc

Right - but the other cards also have an additional effect: remove a card from your hand, destroy an artefact, or trigger another ability.

It's just weird that you're not allowed to play a card / trigger an ability with an "if" where it would do nothing, yet you *can* play a card / trigger an ability *without* an "if" even if it does nothing

Also, your logic is not in the rules!

[Ross013]

Right - but the other cards also have an additional effect: remove a card from your hand, destroy an artefact, or trigger another ability.

It's just weird that you're not allowed to play a card / trigger an ability with an "if" where it would do nothing, yet you *can* play a card / trigger an ability *without* an "if" even if it does nothing

Also, your logic is not in the rules!

The things you describe here are costs not effects. Cards like tidal wave still work if there's no allies out because 0 allies still counts as all allies. You can't cast a card with an extra cost of the effect wouldn't happen. Things like spitfire hound could probably do with a re wording for example spitfire could be changed to '....if you do, you MAY deal 3 fire damage to target opposing ally' but logically, everything makes sense, and yes, if it isn't in the rules it probably should be

[trevorJacobs]

The things you describe here are costs not effects. Cards like tidal wave still work if there's no allies out because 0 allies still counts as all allies. You can't cast a card with an extra cost of the effect wouldn't happen. Things like spitfire hound could probably do with a re wording for example spitfire could be changed to '....if you do, you MAY deal 3 fire damage to target opposing ally' but logically, everything makes sense, and yes, if it isn't in the rules it probably should be

I think you might have misunderstood - those things are additional effects you might want NOT costs.

Example 1: I cannot cast Honored Dead if I don't have 3 dead allies. But I might want the additional effect of not having that card in my hand.
Example 2: I cannot activate the ability on Tombstone Beacon of I haven't summoned an ally, but I might want the effect of destroying that artefact
Example 3: I cannot trigger Darklight Apprentice if another SE ability has not been used, but I might want the effect of growing Void Leviathon

If there is an additional cost, it's indicated by a colon. See Knight of Unaxio for example: as well as triggering the ability, you must discard a card. Same for transmogrification curse. Where this is not the case, there is no colon. For example, Brakkong or Wulven Rally allow you not to do the first part, but still do the second.

Further, Abomination Factory is inconsistent. There is no colon, but you still have to do the first part as an additional cost. Compare directly with Knight of Unaxio. Same effect, different wording.

Thus:
1) why can't I activate Abomination Factory without a card to discard, but I can activate Brakkong without two targets?
2) why can't I activate abilities with an "if" statement if the statement is not met?

On Q2, I have heard "because it will do nothing" .... But I can cast cards that do nothing all the time! I have also heard "that's the rule" but it's not in the rules!

Summary: update the rules and add a colon to Abomination Factory ... Or allow me to activate "if" abilities!

[Gondorian]

You can cast All Hope Is Lost even if the opponent's deck is not empty; Here Be Monsters can be cast if the opponent has fewer resources.

But Honored Dead cannot be cast if there are not three allies in graveyard. Is that because the first two have other effects?

If that's all it is ... Then it's inconsistent! Because casting the spell is an effect in itself! You might want to destroy Obelisk of Echoes or Tombstone Beacon, pump Io Void Leviathon, get rid of Honored Dead in hand (to draw for example).

AHiL and HBM make perfect sense as is. There's too sentences with one being conditional and another not being conditional.

Honored Dead uses one sentence that makes clear the card draw is conditional.

I see no sense in changing how Honored Dead works to allow for casting cards for no effect other than playing a card and spending resources.

[Gondorian]

I think you might have misunderstood - those things are additional effects you might want NOT costs.

Example 1: I cannot cast Honored Dead if I don't have 3 dead allies. But I might want the additional effect of not having that card in my hand.
Example 2: I cannot activate the ability on Tombstone Beacon of I haven't summoned an ally, but I might want the effect of destroying that artefact
Example 3: I cannot trigger Darklight Apprentice if another SE ability has not been used, but I might want the effect of growing Void Leviathon

If there is an additional cost, it's indicated by a colon. See Knight of Unaxio for example: as well as triggering the ability, you must discard a card. Same for transmogrification curse. Where this is not the case, there is no colon. For example, Brakkong or Wulven Rally allow you not to do the first part, but still do the second.

Further, Abomination Factory is inconsistent. There is no colon, but you still have to do the first part as an additional cost. Compare directly with Knight of Unaxio. Same effect, different wording.

Thus:
1) why can't I activate Abomination Factory without a card to discard, but I can activate Brakkong without two targets?
2) why can't I activate abilities with an "if" statement if the statement is not met?

On Q2, I have heard "because it will do nothing" .... But I can cast cards that do nothing all the time! I have also heard "that's the rule" but it's not in the rules!

Summary: update the rules and add a colon to Abomination Factory ... Or allow me to activate "if" abilities!

I think I'll just update the Advanced Rulebook (yes, we're having a Basic one to learn the game and an Advanced one to cover little things that only matter to a few people - this being a perfect example!) to state that if the effect of an activated ability is wholly dependent on a condition being true then you can't activate if the condition is not true.