Preview of Balance Changes for 3.12

[qaz92zaq]

Probably Caitlyn0 will be the only one that will be agree with me, but...
I want to ask for a reconsideration in twilights.


I just think that all the balances are strong changes, and they are comming too many at same time.
The idea is balance this tribe, don't kill it.

Basically, twilights had 3 real problems.
1) Cheap Masive Haste.
2) Masive Return from graveyard.
3) Eternal Draw power

BUT, if the balance take one of this points, the rest makes less problematic.
Avatar was a real problem cuz she ressurect Luminary and get haste at same time with other 3 allies with possible active/pasive abilities.
If avatar cost is increased to 6cc, and resurrect restricted to 2 allies, i think ritualist isn't a OP turn anymore,
But im agree with don't give him haste.

Ritualist was a problem, cuz with haste, in 5cc we can remove any think in board with cost 4 or less.
Whit Ritualist had 3cc restriction, haste isn't a real problem.

Scriptures need for twilight i think, be a colective draw (more that 1 card at same time)
But should be a unique use, cuz for constant 1 card we have Eidolon.
The old ability of Scriptures was cool, but the problem was reported like a unnaceptable chance of refull 7 cards in 1 turn.
Only a cap for draw 3 like max was enough, even if the cost increase to 3.

So... with all this changes, we are now in Luminary case...
Twilights has never been competitive in 270+, until now. And this has been by Luminary i think. Cuz twilights aren't faster by self like other tribes/decks. They need suicide for do everything, and auto-clean the board playing.
They aren't like Humunculus, aldmors, Yari or WUlvens, that invade and STAY in the baord. So haste i think, was a necesary ability for they.
If the problem was the masive haste, we could just restrict this bonus at the first 4cc or less ally summoned every turn. But only in 2cc allies will be chances only to aramia build. And kill the other posibilities.
Im agree with Luminary Nerf, cuz is a critical ally for this tribe, and make too much difference. But i sincerily preffer a increased cost (like 5cc) a once by turn Haste bonus, but for can be used by allies 3 or 4cc.

This is too much drastic changes at same time, and i think maybe has been calculated card by card, cuz the impact of all this nerfs togethers? is just too much for this tribe.

I agree with some of your points and your argument in general, but some things in there are simply not correct.

Yes you are right Twilight is so dominate because it has everything it needs and removing just one or two of those things makes everything else less potent. Most obvious example is all the draw in the world won't help if your entire deck only contains garbage recursion is again only strong if you have things worth using it on.


That being said, Twilights had a lot of cards that were simply beyond insane and to say they were never viable above 270 rating is also not quite accurate when Twilight Aramia was the 2nd most dominate deck in SF QM (as a whole I will grant the tribe was weak because there really weren't any other T1 twilight decks to my knowledge).

Ritualist people complained about back in SF. Going first it gives insane removal power.

Luminary was also really broken and looks like it is still strong even if for a very different reason than before. Good stats + Seek is not in anyway a dead card.

Scriptures was by far the best draw engine in the game. Not sure about its strength now it might still need some work looks like it might actually be a bit weak.

The Location was also fairly broken imo. Unfortunately I think they went overboard on this one.

Avatar I actually fully agree with you. The power behind this card relies on the strength of what it was able to bring back, nerfing all those things makes Avatar far more reasonable. Probably still a bit too good, but likely not good enough to justify the amount of nerfing it got.

Kallista change looks like a buff to me, and I'm assuming was mainly done to give Twilight a 5 drop now that Avatar no longer fills that slot.

[Umbra7]

After 3.12 update there will be a new the best draw engine in the game... Garina road lol

With new ability garina might be lots of fun. 1 cc less for everything and card draw is pretty powerful. Welcome back burn decks.

I have to disagree with both of you, for the mere fact that i dont eveb think garina will see play. If some person actually attempts to, they're likely going to find that their giving the opponent more benefit then THEY can handle. The problem with garina wasnt that the opposing ability wasnt good enough, the problem was that the controller ability was causing a lot of imbalance. I think the best balance for garina is a conditional summons to be honest.
Instead of 3cc to just spam allies, change the ability to
0cc: if the opposing player has three or more allies in play, target ally in hand is played at no cost.

This adds actual strategy into using the location, and gives the opponent the ability to strategically counter it. Firstly, when they summon their fatties, the opponent will already have allies on board to give them a chance at combatting it. This starts to even the playing feild a bit.
The opponent also now has a legitimate strategy to combatting garina, and thats by not playing more than 3 allies. And as a last point, it addresses another of the biggest complaints with garina, fattie spam. Garina road will only be useful while your opponent controls the board. It becomes a method of attempting to regain board control, as opposed to a card that ensures you keep it. Once the garina player has cleared the opposing board, it bow becomes a sort of equalizer to let the opponent keep up, but not let another ally be summoned for free every turn. This also means that solo decks dont equate to an insta-loss just because the opponent has garina.

[Arcanes]

I agree with some of your points and your argument in general, but some things in there are simply not correct.

Luminary was also really broken and looks like it is still strong even if for a very different reason than before. Good stats + Seek is not in anyway a dead card.

Seek don't care so much in luminary for 2SE if you can use Lorhon. (both for 5th turn.)
This carnd has not been nerfed by seek, is only for haste bonus i think.
4cc for haste 2cc allies... i will dont use it.
We have better cards by that cost. And better ways for haste little allies if a player need it (like location)

[Anasia]

I have to disagree with both of you, for the mere fact that i dont eveb think garina will see play. If some person actually attempts to, they're likely going to find that their giving the opponent more benefit then THEY can handle. The problem with garina wasnt that the opposing ability wasnt good enough, the problem was that the controller ability was causing a lot of imbalance. I think the best balance for garina is a conditional summons to be honest.
Instead of 3cc to just spam allies, change the ability to
0cc: if the opposing player has three or more allies in play, target ally in hand is played at no cost.

This adds actual strategy into using the location, and gives the opponent the ability to strategically counter it. Firstly, when they summon their fatties, the opponent will already have allies on board to give them a chance at combatting it. This starts to even the playing feild a bit.
The opponent also now has a legitimate strategy to combatting garina, and thats by not playing more than 3 allies. And as a last point, it addresses another of the biggest complaints with garina, fattie spam. Garina road will only be useful while your opponent controls the board. It becomes a method of attempting to regain board control, as opposed to a card that ensures you keep it. Once the garina player has cleared the opposing board, it bow becomes a sort of equalizer to let the opponent keep up, but not let another ally be summoned for free every turn. This also means that solo decks dont equate to an insta-loss just because the opponent has garina.

What you are proposing is a new location, not the Garina road, though the idea looks interesting. Apparently, the dev team designing the Garina concept wanted people playing fatties more often which were not very popular because of plenty of useful and cheap allies.
In my opinion only one effect for the non-controller side would be enough - either draw or the lesser cost of all the cards. Now it really seems not worthy to put in the deck. But to be honest I just like that after 3.12 this location will be out of the way (though I feel guilty for such mindy-like thoughts), because it was causing so much frustration and negative game experience.
I think that the devs balancing locations should work in the direction of such locations as Gaderi: Braxno Citadel and Yahari: Valley of Doom that have proven to be useful and quite balanced. I see that they really make an effort to reach that point with other locations, but honestly they are only spoiling them even more in one way or another.

[mindy]

say what you want about the garina change but at least it will be more balanced than it is now. 3 of my most recent games were against garina players. this card breaks the meta so we only have a few decks and no diversity. thats just as bad as it being op.

[liathis]

I really must say that Garina Road and Twilight's right now makes the game so much less fun than before the LL release . But then again I'm not abusing them either. I happily looking forward to the changes.

[Peavey]

Can't wait 4 the twilight nerf, really annoying!

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

I agree with some of your points and your argument in general, but some things in there are simply not correct.

Yes you are right Twilight is so dominate because it has everything it needs and removing just one or two of those things makes everything else less potent. Most obvious example is all the draw in the world won't help if your entire deck only contains garbage recursion is again only strong if you have things worth using it on.


That being said, Twilights had a lot of cards that were simply beyond insane and to say they were never viable above 270 rating is also not quite accurate when Twilight Aramia was the 2nd most dominate deck in SF QM (as a whole I will grant the tribe was weak because there really weren't any other T1 twilight decks to my knowledge).

Ritualist people complained about back in SF. Going first it gives insane removal power.

Luminary was also really broken and looks like it is still strong even if for a very different reason than before. Good stats + Seek is not in anyway a dead card.

Scriptures was by far the best draw engine in the game. Not sure about its strength now it might still need some work looks like it might actually be a bit weak.

The Location was also fairly broken imo. Unfortunately I think they went overboard on this one.

Avatar I actually fully agree with you. The power behind this card relies on the strength of what it was able to bring back, nerfing all those things makes Avatar far more reasonable. Probably still a bit too good, but likely not good enough to justify the amount of nerfing it got.

Kallista change looks like a buff to me, and I'm assuming was mainly done to give Twilight a 5 drop now that Avatar no longer fills that slot.

So ive been olaying twilight exclusive for at least 50 games. I have to say they are not op. Honestly i think they r fine. The biggest change i would make to balnce is not make lifebringer buff other lifebringers. The draw is not as good as it seems. Focus prayer stop thief shriek destroy it. If the draw is decreased to 1 card it will kill the tribe. If any changes change lifebringer and make 2 return from graveyard. They r not as op as i thought and many others. With strategy alot of decks beat them. The downside is they have very weak attack stats. Ansd i have been screaming for nerfs with everyone else. But i decided to play and they are not as bad as i thought. I get beat as much with them as with any other deck. If the draw is changed to 1 cardinstead of two i think the whole tribe disappears. The nerf to aramia did a lot to curb the silliness. ALOT.

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

Scriptures is not broken. Honestly it gets shut down so much that its jot an issuemnstal decks. Priest. Shrieknof vengance stop thief etc. I dont get to spam it at allm ive been playing in 250 to 290 range. If that gets nerfed there is no viable draw and the tribe fizzles away.

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

Luminary could jaste in 3cc allies. But 2 cc allies is useless