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  1. #1
    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Inconsistent SRO mechanic - Twilight Champion

    Bp maxi1230 vs Shrapnelfox

    I have in SRO x2 twilight allies then a Twilight Champion (3/5) in play
    My opponent (BP Maxi) plays Super Nova

    Based on the game mechanics discussed in the following thread:
    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....-Death-Effects

    The 2 twilight allies should have been killed before the twilight champion, making her 4 (attack)/7(health) from her ability before she is dealt 5 damage from Super Nova. (and hence not killed, with 2 health remaining)

    Could someone please clarify what occurred?
    Has the on death mechanics changed in 3.11, a bug occurred or have I missed something?


    SIDE NOTE: The Twilight Champion dying is the intuitive outcome that I, ideally would what to see, but that’s not how the currently published Shadow Era logic works.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Arcanes's Avatar
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    Im not 100% sure, but i thing that is different.

    1. Super Nova does damage to all 5 allies.
    THEN
    2. All Allies are checked in SRO for damage, go to graveyard, and in this stage the abilities for die are triggered.


    From Undeads case, when Cryptspawn is checked, the graveyard can have more undeads if others are been previously placed in it in SRO, so Cryptspawn abilitty can be triggered.

    But in Twilight case is different i think, becouse all the twilights recived the damage first simultaneous, so they have 0 HP, THEN the SRO check the order for place them in graveyard, and trigger any ability for "Ally dead", but Champion already have 0 HP, so he can't "heal", cuz is already dead.

    In rulebook say " However, after an ally has been dealt lethal damage (had its health decreased to 0) it will no longer be able to gain life to stay alive, because its death has already been triggered." Page 19: Ability Triggering and Resolution
    Last edited by Arcanes; 01-18-2016 at 11:26 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Damage is dealt simultaneously and the allies hit the grave from left to right. An ally at 0 HP cannot gain HP.
    Raised in Exile. Trained in Kiptergarten. Mastering the ways of SE one step at a time.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanes View Post
    Im not 100% sure, but i thing that is different.

    1. Super Nova does damage to all 5 allies.
    THEN
    2. All Allies are checked in SRO for damage, go to graveyard, and in this stage the abilities for die are triggered.


    From Undeads case, when Cryptspawn is checked, the graveyard can have more undeads if others are been previously placed in it in SRO, so Cryptspawn abilitty can be triggered.

    But in Twilight case is different i think, becouse all the twilights recived the damage first simultaneous, so they have 0 HP, THEN the SRO check the order for place them in graveyard, and trigger any ability for "Ally dead", but Champion already have 0 HP, so he can't "heal", cuz is already dead.

    In rulebook say " However, after an ally has been dealt lethal damage (had its health decreased to 0) it will no longer be able to gain life to stay alive, because its death has already been triggered." Page 19: Ability Triggering and Resolution
    Thanks for the clarification Arcanes.
    I greatly appreciate the logic having a intuitive outcome in the twilight scenario!

    It's dangerous that this is only occurring due to a "however" rule. Which means except for "extra health preventing death" situations, the resolution is NOT based on a current "snap shot" of the board with an intuitive outcome, but like the undead example its dynamically changing during the event.

    The game is truly becoming unwieldy. All passive abilities should be treated the same.
    a) use a "snapshot" of what's currently in the grave, in play, etc then calculate SRO
    b) follow SRO (without "however" specific exclusions)

  5. #5
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShrapnelFox View Post
    Bp maxi1230 vs Shrapnelfox

    I have in SRO x2 twilight allies then a Twilight Champion (3/5) in play
    My opponent (BP Maxi) plays Super Nova

    Based on the game mechanics discussed in the following thread:
    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....-Death-Effects

    The 2 twilight allies should have been killed before the twilight champion, making her 4 (attack)/7(health) from her ability before she is dealt 5 damage from Super Nova. (and hence not killed, with 2 health remaining)

    Could someone please clarify what occurred?
    Has the on death mechanics changed in 3.11, a bug occurred or have I missed something?


    SIDE NOTE: The Twilight Champion dying is the intuitive outcome that I, ideally would what to see, but that’s not how the currently published Shadow Era logic works.
    I think you just misunderstood what others have understood (as I can see from their replies already).

    I've put the key part you have misunderstood in bold from your quote. Doing all the damage is step zero and happens before determining who has been killed.

    Since that is not in the out-dated rulebook but only explained on the forum, the rulebook will be updated to make that clear.

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