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  1. #31
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    I guess I would argue that twilight is OP because you have to game solely for them. They possibly can be broken, but at the expense of setting your deck to only counter them. I mean, balance should always be somewhat paramount to any game or else it grows stale and and you will lose players to indifference or just down right anger that they can not compete unless they copy the only style that is working.

    Before the new cards and some updates it seemed that Elementalis had an unfair advantage. But even then, it was never to the extent that every good player was constantly playing them, as I feel there is now. And there was great joy in figuring out a deck that could take them down!

    Now I really don't want to generalize. And I fear that I am white washing too much; but as a player who has played and enjoyed this game for many years (I made my forum profile after a year of playing), I worry that right now it is just to unfair because of the fact that the only possible way to beat these decks are to game for them, and therefore putting oneself at a disadvantage for other decks.

    I have been in the lower 300 rankings a few times, but usually sit around 260-280 rankings. So I am by no means a great player. But I play more to experience what has been a very fun game. I also loved that even a decently thought out deck could have a shot at victory. My only fear is now that the balance has sifted too much.

    I know that it is only a new update and new cards. And I have faith in the creators to find the issue and solve it. For the most part they always have, and I appreciated that and never left for that reason.

    I guess I am just pleading for a quick fix to this issue. I have never wrote at length about anything like this ever, but the frustration is gnawing at me. I see these decks and I know that I have no shot at winning. I have even looked at the rankings to try and watch for a way to succeed, and for the first time in years, all I feel I see is similarity, all I see at the top is a variation of the same twilight priest decks

    I am not trying to troll, and I will do my best to find an answer in my own deck building. All you skilled players/ creators will find an answer. I am sure

  2. #32
    DP Visionary raizoir's Avatar
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    1) Problems:

    Twilight Luminary

    • Massively reduces the benefits of running Kallista, Twilight Matriarch and Demetreyo, Twilight Extremist.
    Braxnorian Soldier sees enough play.
    Lorhon: Twilight Encampment already provides seek.

    Scriptures of the Departed

    • Despite the powerful effect, little thought is required by the player due to its cost, the card’s type and the way effect works.
    • There is already Twilight Eidolon and a player can simply use a class draw card for their second source of draw.

    Avatar of Twilight

    • Whether this card could do with a nerf or not, I just cannot get past the belief that this card undermines the theme of the tribe. For a cult that glorifies death for a higher being, the necromancy effect just makes death seem cheap. In addition, the effect is more at home with the undead tribe.

    While some may be quick to point out Twilight Eidolon (offering a sacrifice in exchange) or even Twilight Lifebringer (increases likelihood of surviving), these cards in a theme sense just helps Twilight allies to avoid a pointless death and instead achieve a praiseworthy one. Those brought back by Avatar have either already went out in a blaze of glory or failed to fulfil their duty and are a disgrace to the tribe.

    2) Suggested Solutions:

    • Change Luminary, perhaps to a 4cc unique twilight version of Layarian Seductress with the requirement of x twilight allies in the graveyard.
    • Remove Scriptures for twilights and redesign it for another deck.
    • Change Avatar, not quite sure what to without seeing the overall effect of the other cards being changed.

    3) Overall effect:

    • Strengthens Demetreyo’s and Kallista’s role.
    • A more focused theme of being a death cult which has methods of increasing the likelihood of a meaningful death.

  3. #33
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    And to add one more thing. After reading though this thread again. I do feel like draw is the issue. The Aramia decks of old at least had to choose between getting draw or a death totem (which was a bit of both).

    But now with speed of the draw, haste, health building, growth, and exile options built into the twilight cards. (And at that... Passively for most actions). I mean, what other card set do you get all of those in such a cheap package?

  4. #34
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    Avatar of Twilight

    • Whether this card could do with a nerf or not, I just cannot get past the belief that this card undermines the theme of the tribe. For a cult that glorifies death for a higher being, the necromancy effect just makes death seem cheap. In addition, the effect is more at home with the undead tribe.

    While some may be quick to point out Twilight Eidolon (offering a sacrifice in exchange) or even Twilight Lifebringer (increases likelihood of surviving), these cards in a theme sense just helps Twilight allies to avoid a pointless death and instead achieve a praiseworthy one. Those brought back by Avatar have either already went out in a blaze of glory or failed to fulfil their duty and are a disgrace to the tribe.


    This was from Raizoir from above...

    I thought this was genius. I never really thought about tribes to having underlying beliefs. But that kind of goes to my last point. Why does this tribe get them all?

  5. #35
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamIamIamIam View Post
    Avatar of Twilight

    • Whether this card could do with a nerf or not, I just cannot get past the belief that this card undermines the theme of the tribe. For a cult that glorifies death for a higher being, the necromancy effect just makes death seem cheap. In addition, the effect is more at home with the undead tribe.

    While some may be quick to point out Twilight Eidolon (offering a sacrifice in exchange) or even Twilight Lifebringer (increases likelihood of surviving), these cards in a theme sense just helps Twilight allies to avoid a pointless death and instead achieve a praiseworthy one. Those brought back by Avatar have either already went out in a blaze of glory or failed to fulfil their duty and are a disgrace to the tribe.


    This was from Raizoir from above...

    I thought this was genius. I never really thought about tribes to having underlying beliefs. But that kind of goes to my last point. Why does this tribe get them all?
    Not sure if you read the flavor text on it, but there's a clue there that this is about being chosen to be able to die-for-value again.That fits with Eidolon that brings them back to die-for-value again. And Lifebringer boosts their health to increase the chance they can die-for-value of their own accord than be picked off easily.

    I won't argue that some rebalancing is needed, but I strongly believe the lore behind the tribe is consistent.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    If anybody belongs on the undead tribe, its orphic. Course, that may just be biased wishful thinking, but....
    Shadow of the Night
    Warrior of The Blue Phoenix
    Greatness, Reborn

    Seeker of potential, hidden from the light
    Teacher from the darkness, the Shadow of The Night
    To you I bring my knowledge, hidden from plain sight
    And write it in my blog, bringing new things to the fight


    IGN: BP Umbra Nox

  7. #37
    Senior Member Caitlyn0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I only said nerfs. The time for buffing cards in SF has passed now. We had 2 years for that.
    you had 2 years for the nerfs also.

    how many times do i have to say, never never never never change a card in a set because of the next set. you have already done that TOO much and want to keep doing it?

    time to let go. 2 years is way too long to still be trying to balance it AND thinking it needs it (and thats not even counting the time it was in the PFG, thats just the time the "public" has had to play with it)

    i havent seen a single nerf call for an SF card since LL came out. i have seen some calls for buffs
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  8. #38
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlyn0 View Post

    i havent seen a single nerf call for an SF card since LL came out. i have seen some calls for buffs
    I've seen a handful of nerf calls for twilight ritualist...but we all get that you don't want to see nerfs. Could you perhaps give some specific arguments for why no twilight cards should be changed? For example, ways in which twilight are balanced? Are there easy ways to beat them, or versatile cards that do double-duty against twilight and other decks, making nerfs unnecessary?
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Caitlyn0's Avatar
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    ok, sorry, there has been a call to nerf ritualist, but its lumped in with nerfing twilight in general.

    you wanna stay away from bold please, makes your post look like a a personal attack.

    i never said twilight couldnt use an adjustment, or a nerf or two. but it seems everyone wants the whole tribe dead bascially. and there are so many post about which to nerf and such that there isnt a general consesus towards what to nerf. 1 or 2 nerfs, ok, i get it. but everything that has been called in for a nerf, will just make them all completely unplayable.

    as to how to counter it, its easy, most everyone is using one of the two cards. just add the second. cast groundshift, drop Valley of Doom. good bye twilight. you are already using groundshift (if not, oh well) adding in Valley of Doom, which is still helpful against other decks, except garina road decks, isnt that much of a change and doesnt really hurt. spirit warden and bone collector are good cards against this as well. those are not crappy allies no one ever uses.


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  10. #40
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Thanks for the constructive post and sorry for the bold...I was aiming for slight emphasis not insult. Just trying to keep this thread focused on the topic: reasons for and against nerfing twilight, and if nerfed how to do it.
    IGN: ETC BobRoss
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