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  1. #1
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    Please explain this behaviour to me... ...

    Just started a ranked game vs user "IM UR GAWD" who offered draw immediately without any explanation before any card was played. Then he went AFK without disconnecting or quitting the match.

    I just came back to this game after over a year of hearthstone, and I found this to be ridiculous. Why does the timer not shorten after the first time turn ends on timer running out? Why isn't there an auto victory after one side goes AFK?

  2. #2
    Europe Regional (Winter 2012) Champion jacqui's Avatar
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    He saw a bad matchup and knew he was going to lose so he offered a draw.
    You refused to accept the draw.
    He went AFK to make you waste your time to win out of spite.

  3. #3
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    Some people are able to exploit the timer so that it never disconnects them. Not sure how they do it but it can be infuriating.
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    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodman528 View Post
    Just started a ranked game vs user "IM UR GAWD" who offered draw immediately without any explanation before any card was played. Then he went AFK without disconnecting or quitting the match.

    I just came back to this game after over a year of hearthstone, and I found this to be ridiculous. Why does the timer not shorten after the first time turn ends on timer running out? Why isn't there an auto victory after one side goes AFK?
    Welcome back!

    If I understand correctly, this player just did nothing on all their turns meaning you had to wait about a minute after each of your turns while they did nothing? So it was basically a free win for you, but with a boring wait after each of your turns, as opposed to some hack to increase the timer indefinitely (as Ganjamus has wondered)?

    We have talked about putting in an auto-concede (by them) if this happens for 3 turns in a row, but there are corner cases where a person isn't being a jerk and it's a tactical move (e.g. they are waiting for a combo situation or they are trying to avoid drawing cards, etc), so the logic would have to be smarter than just counting to three and the official ruling will have to be more complicated than just "do nothing for 3 turns and you lose".

    Hopefully you don't run into anyone else like this. Seems to be rare here, so we've not needed to implement anything to tackle them yet. What does Hearthstone do?

  5. #5
    Senior Member oggtheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Welcome back!

    If I understand correctly, this player just did nothing on all their turns meaning you had to wait about a minute after each of your turns while they did nothing? So it was basically a free win for you, but with a boring wait after each of your turns, as opposed to some hack to increase the timer indefinitely (as Ganjamus has wondered)?

    We have talked about putting in an auto-concede (by them) if this happens for 3 turns in a row, but there are corner cases where a person isn't being a jerk and it's a tactical move (e.g. they are waiting for a combo situation or they are trying to avoid drawing cards, etc), so the logic would have to be smarter than just counting to three and the official ruling will have to be more complicated than just "do nothing for 3 turns and you lose".

    Hopefully you don't run into anyone else like this. Seems to be rare here, so we've not needed to implement anything to tackle them yet. What does Hearthstone do?
    Shortens the time they have for each turn for every turn they don't do anything. Reset if they do anything
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacqui View Post
    He saw a bad matchup and knew he was going to lose so he offered a draw.
    If I'm not mistaken, the "cancel" button was removed from the "searching for opponent" screen.. so its entirely possible that the opponent accidentally started a match, or started the match but forgot to switch out of a test deck, or suddenly realized they wouldn't have enough time to complete the match, etc...

    That's happened to me plenty of times, especially when playing on mobile, and it super irritating when people don't accept the draw after its immediately offered before anything is played.

    I could understand if you got offered the draw more than once, or if its offered after you've made some solid plays or whatever, but in regards to an immediate draw offer: You seriously need to get a win that badly that you can't afford to just accept a quick draw and move on to a different game?? And even if the person just didn't want to play against your hero for whatever reason, why does that matter to you?? I seriously don't get it.

  7. #7
    Europe Regional (Winter 2012) Champion jacqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kross View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the "cancel" button was removed from the "searching for opponent" screen.. so its entirely possible that the opponent accidentally started a match, or started the match but forgot to switch out of a test deck, or suddenly realized they wouldn't have enough time to complete the match, etc...

    That's happened to me plenty of times, especially when playing on mobile, and it super irritating when people don't accept the draw after its immediately offered before anything is played.

    I could understand if you got offered the draw more than once, or if its offered after you've made some solid plays or whatever, but in regards to an immediate draw offer: You seriously need to get a win that badly that you can't afford to just accept a quick draw and move on to a different game?? And even if the person just didn't want to play against your hero for whatever reason, why does that matter to you?? I seriously don't get it.
    That's a nice excuse. Though the majority of cases are as I said. The fact that he purposely chose to go "AFK" instead of closing the app or hitting "concede" is undeniably convincing evidence to support the case I gave.

    Reverse your stance: You seriously need to win so badly you can't afford to play out a bad matchup? If the person wants to play the game, why does it matter to you? Accept your loss and move on. I seriously don't get it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacqui View Post
    Reverse your stance: You seriously need to win so badly you can't afford to play out a bad matchup? If the person wants to play the game, why does it matter to you? Accept your loss and move on. I seriously don't get it.
    That's a good point. I could argue that one option would actually take time and the other doesn't, but theres no point in going further with that. In my cases, I actually do accept the loss and move on... if I offer the draw and the opponent doesn't accept, I just end the game. Its only irritating in those cases when I'm actually attempting to move up the ladder (hardly ever). But even so, its not too huge of a deal to me. Its only a game after all.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kross View Post
    That's a good point. I could argue that one option would actually take time and the other doesn't, but theres no point in going further with that. In my cases, I actually do accept the loss and move on... if I offer the draw and the opponent doesn't accept, I just end the game. Its only irritating in those cases when I'm actually attempting to move up the ladder (hardly ever). But even so, its not too huge of a deal to me. Its only a game after all.
    right - it's irritating to lose because you made a mistake...but if you're the one who made the mistake, I think it makes sense to accept a loss. If your opponent wants to be magnanimous and accept a draw when they know they're going to win, well that's nice of them, but you shouldn't expect it. Those other players are also trying to climb the ratings (presumably) and accepting draws in place of wins is a bad way to do that.

    Also there have been players who have become well known for spamming "offer draw" whenever they got a bad match up. Even if those players wind up with a high rating - it doesn't translate into respect. The other players know that half of their rating is due to losses that got turned into draws because other players were feeling generous or just didn't have time for that nonsense. If you get a high rating, but in the process gain a reputation for being unskilled and immature, what's the point?

    I think Oggy's solution makes a lot of sense to deal with afkers. Even if you're skipping turns for tactical purposes, you don't need the full timer to do so. if the timer gets shortened to just 10 seconds, and you're skipping for tactical purposes, then when you're ready to finally do something, you can go ahead and do it fast...once you make that first move, the timer gets bumped up a bit, and the next turn, you've got a regular timer again. Makes griefing harder, doesn't interfere with tactical play at all.
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  10. #10
    DP Visionary Demnchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Welcome back!

    If I understand correctly, this player just did nothing on all their turns meaning you had to wait about a minute after each of your turns while they did nothing? So it was basically a free win for you, but with a boring wait after each of your turns, as opposed to some hack to increase the timer indefinitely (as Ganjamus has wondered)?

    We have talked about putting in an auto-concede (by them) if this happens for 3 turns in a row, but there are corner cases where a person isn't being a jerk and it's a tactical move (e.g. they are waiting for a combo situation or they are trying to avoid drawing cards, etc), so the logic would have to be smarter than just counting to three and the official ruling will have to be more complicated than just "do nothing for 3 turns and you lose".

    Hopefully you don't run into anyone else like this. Seems to be rare here, so we've not needed to implement anything to tackle them yet. What does Hearthstone do?
    Eh, I disagree with this, its more of a player behavior problem than a game-rule problem. That is to say, this is different than them doing nothing on their turn. Really, if they are doing it for tactical reasons (ie. passing the turn on purpose) they are bound to actually hit the "End Turn" button, where as people going AFK aren't really going too. If they let the timer run out, their next turn should be shorter and after three turns of timeouts with no action (meaning they didn't hit the "End Turn" Button and let the timer run out), they auto-concede. This shouldn't cause any issues if they had to get up for a turn to take care of some RL thing that takes precedence either. Once you finally take action, the timer gives you a bit of extra time to take your turn (presumably exists because animations do, I suppose, but it works) and if they were going to be gone 3 turns anyways, they weren't likely to win anyways. Players would still have to wait a bit, but not be forced to just wait over and over until they can win normally.

    I honestly think its a pretty straight forward solution imo, although if you see holes in it, feel free to say so. (I will say I'm aware of the idea of someone waiting till the last second to actually hit "End Turn" so it doesn't count as a time out, you could add a window for what is reasonable and then use that to determine if the player is actually stalling and shorten their next turn, but that could be unnecessary... I could also be wrong :P)

    PS: Hearthstone does something very similar to the above suggestion, only it doesn't auto-concede (anyone coming back after several turns would likely concede anyways). What happens there is when a time out happens is they shorten the next turn significantly, consecutive time outs quickly give you the 15 second warning (the burning rope that solely indicates any timer at all) until the game senses you're back or haven't gone afk which then gives you your lost time back (unsure if its all of it, but it gives you enough to take a turn). This helps a lot by not letting players waste your time (although its still possible), but also gives players time to reconnect after a dc or whatever it is causing the timeouts.
    Last edited by Demnchi; 12-21-2015 at 06:25 AM.
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