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  1. #11
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    Or.........OOORRRRRR, We could just not ban things and play the game the way it's meant to be?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Delay of Game's Avatar
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    Easy.

    Answer: When you get a bunch of F-you comments by opponents and hate-mail. Then it's stall/mill. Or alternatively some equally f*$&@ deck like using Jericho...

  3. #13
    Asia Regionals Champion 2015 Halalboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delay of Game View Post
    Easy.

    Answer: When you get a bunch of F-you comments by opponents and hate-mail. Then it's stall/mill. Or alternatively some equally f*$&@ deck like using Jericho...
    didn't know they go as far as hate mail haha
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Alzorath's Avatar
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    I've seen a handful of organizers use a minimum ally-count method (or a proportional ally count method) for the judgment of the decks.

    But quite simply, they're not official bans, they're TO specific bans - so it's up to the TO to decide what qualifies/doesn't qualify. Though, as was said earlier, it's best to consider your deck's win conditions - though I would like to see people move away from the "mill/stall" phrasing, just to "stall" ban - mill is viable, has counter strategies (that don't require "useless tech" for most players), and doesn't drag out the tournament unnecessarily... where as stall extends the length of the matches, and in turn, the tournaments (and in a handful of cases requires "useless tech" for a number of heroes) - which can sort of defeat the purpose of a "pop-up" tournament (which is meant to be a quick, less formal, 8-16 player tournament)

  5. #15
    Chat Mod Kip thorp's Avatar
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    I'm not sure this applies anymore.
    Mind you I've been a victim of the original Millstalker decks way back when. And yes, I hated it. Hated it soooooo much.
    But now we have Prax, (I hate him, really I do) but his abilty is mill.
    Moons is stall.

    There are enough tech cards out there that it's possible to mess these decks up. But then again, nobody wants a 45 minute game, esp when you know your gonna lose.

    Since LL will hit soon, I hope! And change the meta.

    I believe it's simply the TOs call at this time, if he banns stall and you like stall , don't play.
    Same for mill.

    It's almost impossible to simply lump these two deck styles together and say x card = stall, y cards = mill
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Twio's Avatar
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    To be perfectly honest, any non-Elemental deck whose primary win condition is deck-out, is stall. No other archetype has the card pool to efficiently mill out their opponent without using stall cards like Rain Delay, Evil Ascendant, Full Moon etc.
    Last edited by Twio; 12-18-2015 at 10:15 AM.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    Personally I'm with Ross. Of course i do t participate in pop-ups, but i dont like banning rules in general. I understand that stall decks arent appreciated, especially when youre trying to move quickly. But some of the types of decks that arent stall might get listed as such if you start throwing bans around.
    As for mill, that really shouldnt be banned. A good rush mill praxix will empty a 40 card deck in about 7 turns, and kill you with all hope is lost.

    Anyways, my main problem with banning these types of things is a restriction on creativity. If i ever do decide to start joining poo-ups, it would be nice to know I'm not being retricted in my deck choices.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Twio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbra7 View Post
    Personally I'm with Ross. Of course i do t participate in pop-ups, but i dont like banning rules in general. I understand that stall decks arent appreciated, especially when youre trying to move quickly. But some of the types of decks that arent stall might get listed as such if you start throwing bans around.
    As for mill, that really shouldnt be banned. A good rush mill praxix will empty a 40 card deck in about 7 turns, and kill you with all hope is lost.

    Anyways, my main problem with banning these types of things is a restriction on creativity. If i ever do decide to start joining poo-ups, it would be nice to know I'm not being retricted in my deck choices.
    I don't think anyone particularly wants to ban mill. People ban stall decks in pop-ups because if players use stall, it stops rounds from being completed in a timely fashion and a 8 man pop-up takes half a day to get through.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Mightyoak713's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I will add my thoughts as well then,

    I think for a pop up[ if this is oriented towards that ] I would solely place the call upon the TO, as Jac said the rules to define these decks are skewed. I would suggest either allowing the TO to make the call or completely banning a hero. I, on a personal note, do note like to ban heroes as it leads to a stagnant play/meta and that is lame :/ SE is becoming more diverse in some senses and that is good for the meta which will lead to more common winners[meta readers].
    Simply put, imo its up to the TO as to whats " in or out" in their pop up/tourney.
    -Side note- I think often times ppl use " the best deck" but do not understand the "why". This will lead to another form of " best deck" by next level thinkers. I think the masses do not take time to read and craft accordingly either and you will often hear " nerf this" when in fact its a lack of trying to read and counter[ most decks still have a counter] the current state or even changing its state to better fit your goal.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Alzorath's Avatar
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    And I do think it's very important to note: these bans are in player run tournaments, not Wulven tournaments - I would have an issue with the latter, but I refuse to see the issue with the former, any more than I see an issue with people running themed Pop-ups/Tournaments.

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