Morbid Acolyte vs Der'kan

[Nanock]

Morbid Acolyte uses his ability on a lone Der'kan, the Bone King (with undead activators in the graveyard).

Morbid attacks, hurts Der'kan but does not kill him, and dies to the counter attack. Hero attacks to finish him off. Der'kan returns to hand instead of going to the graveyard.

Nanock vs BP SoulCutter

[tman507]

Probably because Acolyte has to still be on the field for his effect of negating Der'kan's passives to apply. If you attacked with hero first, then Acolyte, Acolyte would still be alive and Der'kan wouldn't return.

[Nanock]

Hmm, I could have sworn his effect was persistent after death, but perhaps that's the deal. Thanks for the response.

[Delay of Game]

Hmm, I could have sworn his effect was persistent after death, but perhaps that's the deal. Thanks for the response.

Wait until you see someone manipulate Necromancer's Shroud....that's some messed up stuff,....but not bug.

[bobrossw]

Hmm, I could have sworn his effect was persistent after death, but perhaps that's the deal. Thanks for the response.

yeah it's confusing because the effect specifies a duration but doesn't specify that it's "while MA is in play" as well. Same situation with Layarian Diplomat. The confusing part for me is other control effects like layarian seductress or sword thief persist after they leave play. That always struck me as an odd inconsistency. I guess layarian seductress is so attractive that even when she's dead, they can't attack...diplomat isn't nearly as persuasive.

[Buqs]

yeah it's confusing because the effect specifies a duration but doesn't specify that it's "while MA is in play" as well. Same situation with Layarian Diplomat. The confusing part for me is other control effects like layarian seductress or sword thief persist after they leave play. That always struck me as an odd inconsistency. I guess layarian seductress is so attractive that even when she's dead, they can't attack...diplomat isn't nearly as persuasive.

Seductress, Sword Thief Jasmine create negative effects via their abilities which also happens to have a duration.

Seductress (disabled)
Jasmine (can't attack)
Sword Thief (can't attack or defend)

So the difference is that a Negative Effect is created by their abilities.

Rule Book states

"Negative Effects
A negative effect is an ongoing state that continuously causes some impairment or harm to the target. It can have a limited duration, last until a condition is met, or last indefinitely.
Negative effects can be tied to a source (e.g. an enemy attachment) or be active independent of their source (e.g. being poisoned by an attack). To remove a negative effect tied to a source, you must remove the source; to remove negative effects that exist independently, you will require a card that removes the negative effect itself."

I would assume that Jas/Seductress/SwdThf's negative effects are tied to a source (e.g. an ally), but it appears as though they are acting as being active independent of their source and expire when duration is met or negative effect itself is removed (e.g. Healing Touch).

[Nanock]

Thank you all for the posts. It does feel a bit inconsistent, but I should assume that unless I see hearts or the 'wrapped up' effect on a card, it's only applied if my guy is alive.

[jtl2901]

This threw me off a little in that game as well. But yes it makes sense if Morbid Acolyte is no longer in play, his ability/affect on Der'kan would die as well.

[bobrossw]

Seductress, Sword Thief Jasmine create negative effects via their abilities which also happens to have a duration.

Seductress (disabled)
Jasmine (can't attack)
Sword Thief (can't attack or defend)

So the difference is that a Negative Effect is created by their abilities.

Rule Book states

"Negative Effects
A negative effect is an ongoing state that continuously causes some impairment or harm to the target. It can have a limited duration, last until a condition is met, or last indefinitely.
Negative effects can be tied to a source (e.g. an enemy attachment) or be active independent of their source (e.g. being poisoned by an attack). To remove a negative effect tied to a source, you must remove the source; to remove negative effects that exist independently, you will require a card that removes the negative effect itself."

I would assume that Jas/Seductress/SwdThf's negative effects are tied to a source (e.g. an ally), but it appears as though they are acting as being active independent of their source and expire when duration is met or negative effect itself is removed (e.g. Healing Touch).

perhaps a rulebook list of negative effects that are "active independent of the source" would be helpful. it's working sort of the same way that keyword abilities work too...also confusing.

If I play layarian diplomat on a Gargoyle - it negates its armor.
If I play layarian diplomat on a nightshade - it negates stealth
If I play layarian diplomat on an ally stealthed by moonstalker - it negates stealth - this is granted by another source, but it's a keyword tied to the ally
If I play layarian diplomat on an ally protected by grave resistance - it keeps its armor - this is granted by another source but it's not a keyword, therefore it's tied to grave resistance.

Those differences feel sort of arbitrary and are not intuitive at all...but I've brought this up before. Developers are aware of it.

[Buqs]

perhaps a rulebook list of negative effects that are "active independent of the source" would be helpful. it's working sort of the same way that keyword abilities work too...also confusing.

If I play layarian diplomat on a Gargoyle - it negates its armor.
If I play layarian diplomat on a nightshade - it negates stealth
If I play layarian diplomat on an ally stealthed by moonstalker - it negates stealth - this is granted by another source, but it's a keyword tied to the ally
If I play layarian diplomat on an ally protected by grave resistance - it keeps its armor - this is granted by another source but it's not a keyword, therefore it's tied to grave resistance.

Those differences feel sort of arbitrary and are not intuitive at all...but I've brought this up before. Developers are aware of it.

a list (of sorts) would certainly help clarify things into categories. This rule book is gonna be like 500+ pages lol