Kiruth: Thaddeus' Vault

[oggtheman]

Not sure how do you mean it?
Can´t find out what this is good for exept Gravemonger... any ideas?

Perfect art, this artist (will not name;-) is much better in no-person pictures... love this one.

I have to agree about the art. No offence to Shawn.

[Ganjamus]

Language speaking yes I agree with you, but we have seen that TCG rules are not like that and this is why we need a rulebook. So according to current wording there is exile (special case of removing from play), remove from play (see Soul Reaper) and returning cards from gy. All these serve specific and different function thus they have their own wording. Having an ability that applies to all of these needs a much better wording and not re-use one of its subcategories. I'll wait GDC response, but if it is true what you are saying then the wording is really bad and inconsistent with the previous one imho.

I think if it was explicitly exile then it would say "exiled" and not "removed from the graveyard." Besides, what wording would YOU use? If an Undead ally left the graveyard? Exits? They both sound silly

[Gondorian]

Personally I don't know what removes mean since there's no such keyword. My interpretation is that it is triggered by exiling cards only, since exile is defined as removing card from play or graveyard. But GB's ability and any such ability returns cards to play or hand so unless a keyword removes is defined I can't see the connection of these two..

PS: Really cool artwork indeed!

If it was in your graveyard and then it wasn't, it has been removed from your graveyard. So Gravebone is included.

The wording was originally "If an Undead ally has left your graveyard this turn ...", but for some reason PFG didn't like that (can't remember why) and it was changed to what you see here. Given how often we use the word "remove" on our cards, then maybe we should attempt to avoid that word here and go with "has left your graveyard" after all. Kind of fits with "leaves play" which covers any situation where a card was in play and now isn't, and indeed that's why I picked the original wording.

What do you think?

[jtl2901]

I think I prefer "removed" tbh. "has left your graveyard" makes it sound like a random occurrence. "Removed from your graveyard" refers to an action you take. Could work with either wording I suppose, but the way it is makes more sense imo.

[Gondorian]

I think I prefer "removed" tbh. "has left your graveyard" makes it sound like a random occurrence. "Removed from your graveyard" refers to an action you take. Could work with either wording I suppose, but the way it is makes more sense imo.

Cards can sometimes come out of your graveyard without you doing an explicit action with that effect (e.g. Ghostmaker), so I would consider that one more vote for "has left".

[Daemon Rayge]

Language speaking yes I agree with you, but we have seen that TCG rules are not like that and this is why we need a rulebook. So according to current wording there is exile (special case of removing from play), remove from play (see Soul Reaper) and returning cards from gy. All these serve specific and different function thus they have their own wording. Having an ability that applies to all of these needs a much better wording and not re-use one of its subcategories. I'll wait GDC response, but if it is true what you are saying then the wording is really bad and inconsistent with the previous one imho.

Removes in this case means whenever it is no longer in the graveyard. However, I think rewording it to say "leaves the graveyard" might work. That way, it doesn't cause as much confusion with exiled.

[BP Holy Punisher]

I think that "left" sounds more consistent with current cards. I would be fine with "removed" if you reword the previous cards which is a pain. I've check current pool and removes is mentioned in only two instances: 1) cards removed from gy 2) negative effects or attachments are removed from hero or ally.
I can't think of any more appropriate term atm but I ll think about it

[maskee]

Oh you mean when card leaves graveyard... now I can find some combos. Thanks for clarify...

[Umbra7]

Wow, this card looks great. There really are a ton of ways to activate this ability. The wording implies arthyle's crypt and infinity core will activate the effects as well. I'm sure I'll be posting a complete analysis later

This card is also a special case though. It is the first revealed location that isn't neutral (so weird, I would this humans could make use of this with their large undead selection) and it is also the first revealed location not in balor. Speaking of which... where exactly is Scheuth?

[tman507]

^ Scheuth is one of the Shadow worlds, home of the Undeads. Don't know where exactly it is, as we haven't gotten an actual map for the Shadow worlds yet, but it's definitely not part of Balor.

As for the wording, regardless of whether you use "removed" or "has left", the idea is that the effect works any time an Undead ally goes from your graveyard to somewhere that is not your graveyard, be that your field, hand, exiled, etc.