Design Workbench: Mind Control

[Roby77]

Hey Calmdown sorry bro, please dont take that personally but do you want to change every single card till the format is able for you to reach the top 20? First wanting the rating wipe, now you get it and still complaining...

[tk5]

Although I think I'm getting a bit off topic at this point.

No I think reference to other cards available to Elementals and other allies is relevant when considering a revision of MC. The new card needs to be stand alone "good" or offer good synergy with other cards.

[tk5]

Hey Calmdown sorry bro, please dont take that personally but do you want to change every single card till the format is able for you to reach the top 20? First wanting the rating wipe, now you get it and still complaining...

Although I would find it amusing if Calmdown had orchestrated his position through some kind of machiavellian orchestration in order to achieve no.1 spot and then encourage bizarre changes in order to secure his rank for ever, I think it is highly unlikely O_o

[SixDaysShort]

please don't change MC. it fits into the elemental concept so well. I know you may want to have it fixed by 1.26. But I really think that changing the exhaust rule will change how all of us think about the card. Consider less drastic means than a complete overhaul.

[Calmdown]

I agree tk5, once mind control is brought in line several other cards need a buff and some tweaks to give elementals some sort of direction.


Conversion is complete garbage. Spending 1 card, 2 energy, an ally, and the energy you used to summon that ally to heal maybe 4 health is a waste of deck space. It might be useful on a mind controlled ally when mind control is about to expire, but you are generally better off just suiciding the ally on something.

Transference you spend a card and 3 energy to gain a random card. You'd be better off just removing this card from your deck and having something useful in its place to begin with, although it does work somewhat in a mill deck. This would be better as a draw 2 to give elementals some card drawing power.

Feedback is extremely situational and basically is only useful when you have 6+ resources, and by the time you have 6+ resources you are very lucky to have enough cards in hand to take advantage of it.


Although I think I'm getting a bit off topic at this point.

You're not, you're bang on topic. Elementals were overpowered to death, and 1.25 + this is going to have put all of their 'power cards' into situationalsville, meaning they're going to struggle to build a standard, solid deck if we're not careful. The fact is is that Mind Control is 'holding them up' right now, which is not good; one card should not define an archetype. Reworking other cards along with Mind Control to make sure we don't ruin their card pool is not out of the question. Along with Wulven I think these heroes are the ones that have the most problems right now and I'd really like to get the 'basics' done for 1.26 so that we can break the nerf/buff cycle.

[Scion]

I could see mind control as this:

Mind Control
Cost: 5
Effect: Your opponent takes control of one of your allies and you gain control of one of your opponent's allies for 3 turns. The allies are exhausted till the start of your next turn and cannot be attacked.

This way you exhange allies with your opponent and you still have the upper hand as they can't be attacked till your next turn.

[thendless]

"If you were designing Mind Control from scratch with no knowledge of what it does now, how would you design it?"

I'll give it a try:

Name: Mind Control
Type: Item
Cost: 5
Effect: Gain control of target ally in play. You loose life equal to that ally's casting cost.

Basically, Mind Control needs a drawback. It's still playable, but it's no longer a no-brainer.

However, the most significant decision regarding its balance would be to make it possible to destroy it with the likes of Shriek of Vengeance. That would even the play since almost every deck available would be able to counter it. And the ones that don't have item destruction at their disposal can use Retreat instead.

[tk5]

I could see mind control as this:

Mind Control
Cost: 5
Effect: Your opponent takes control of one of your allies and you gain control of one of your opponent's allies for 3 turns. The allies are exhausted till the start of your next turn and cannot be attacked.

This way you exhange allies with your opponent and you still have the upper hand as they can't be attacked till your next turn.

--- Mind Swap

[Bobkyou]

Well if we are going to look at their entire card pool, my suggestions would be . . .

What I already said for mind control. It'll still be a powerful card for changing the field advantage, but they risk destroying their resource pile if they use it too much.

Energy discharge I think is fine. Gives them complete control of the field but costly enough that it can't be the only card in their deck.

Conversion I would completely overhaul. Elementals could use some additional early game field control, so maybe cost 2 kill target ally with 3 or less health, you gain that much health. That should prove more useful and keep in line with the theme of the card. Sort of an altered Now You're Mine with a different condition and a small health gain.

Soul Reaper I think is fine. Its cheaper than enrage, can't be destroyed like enrage, and can potentially give more health than enrage, although that ends up being situational.

Transference I think would be better as a draw 2 cards from your opponents deck. As it stands now you are paying 3 energy and a card to get a random card. With this change it'd give elementals some basic card drawing. If the elemental player plays 4, thats 8 cards from your opponents 30 card deck. If they manage to draw additional Transferences with Eternal Renewal and a few bad santas, it should make a fine addition to elemental mill decks.

Feedback costs 3 to renew all of your resources, but that's generally only useful if you have 6 or more resources, and by that point you'd be lucky to have the cards to use it. How about make feedback a cost 2, renew up to 5 resources? It should give the card a bit more playability without being over powered.

Life Infusion, maybe make it +4 health and when this card leaves play, you heal 4 life? Not sure what to do with this one, but I think it needs a small boost.

[TheCaseAce]

Three random ideas:

1. Mind Controlled Allies cannot attack, only defend - makes sense thematically I think, but might be too big a nerf.

2. Mind Control's cost varies according to the casting cost of the target. It's a bit thematically crap that some epic hero can be swayed as easily as "the little guy". I don't mind you stealing my Aeon, but casting 3 other spells on the same round as well is just ridiculous. Feedback is the issue here. Stealing an Aeon should be unlikely to leave you with enough resource to cast Feedback unless it is VERY late in the game.

3. Mind Controlled allies are still technically classed as belonging to the other player, so:
- cannot be elementalis sacrificed as not friendly
- are susceptible to "all enemy allies" effects

Anyway, just some ideas for the pot.