Constructive Discussion about Stardust Extractor

[bobrossw]

One thing about context - Elementals have traditionally horrible draw options. In its prior form, extractor almost never did anything, just died. Elementalis had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get 1-2 cards out of it.

So I guess you could look at it two ways -
1 - elementals should have horrible draw options
2 - this sort of kind of makes up for the bad draw options in a flavorful and not ridiculous way.

Compare it to the other 3cc cantrip ally - Night Owl. Night owl has stealth (conditional, but still) I think that's on par with activated draw. Of course, rogues are traditionally strong in the draw department - so maybe they deserve a cantrip ally while elementals don't. Night Owl also has worse stats (they add up to 5, as opposed to 6).

So I do think one could make a flavor argument here - elementals are supposed to have bad draw, so don't give them good draw, give them good stats instead...or something like that.

But I think with balance it comes down to playtesting, I really don't see elementals doing much better than before. They're solid now, and I like that they're solid with elementalis being on par with zaladar, and even praxix doing some cool stuff. I really don't get the feeling that they're OP? Does anyone have consistent auto-losses to elementals?

[BlanketEffect]

Without having read the myriad of opinions, I'll just give mine as it's formed over the past few weeks.

Simply put, it's too good. This is for a number of reasons, as I see it:

Elementals have always had a lack of cheap, unilateral draw. This is what offsets their very powerful cardpool. This breaks that mold.

Extractor isn't just a cantrip, it's also a draw engine. Granted it's easier to destroy than most draw engines, being an ally, but it's NOT just a cantrip.

Steadfast is actually a drawback for the Elemental player, as they can't bounce it back to their hand and start it over. So, that's reasonable.

That it begins as a 2/5 and becomes a 2/4 upon entry means you're getting a 2/4 ally whose on-summon ability replaces itself in terms of card advantage. And then, potentially can draw even more, while still being a threat present on the board. Compare this to say, Sandra, who IS a bit lackluster, but is more expensive and has lower stats. Plus, Sandra's effect is a one time shot. You're not going to get multiple card advantage from her. I know RD is different than card advantage, but it's in the same vein.

My suggestion:

Cost: (3)
2/4 base stats
Current ability, along with steadfast, and make Unique.

This is only my opinion, but I think it's formed from very valid points.

[Preybird]

Using this, its good. Very good. Too good, not convinced.

However I do think that if a nerf if required, i would have it cantrip on summon and thats it. Leave the Steadfast to prevent bouncing as Blanket says, but either remove the consistent draw or make it 2SE and sacrifice Extractor to draw a card (which fits Elemental theme).

Its in a good spot at 3cc, Id rather see it take a hit power wise and stay there than move up to 4cc (and out of a good curve) and retain or gain power.

[morbius]

Increasing Extractor's draw ability cost to 2SE might be the best idea so far. Right now, I'm thinking keep the current stats, 3cc cost and steadfast, but draw on death instead on summon and ability cost at 2se. If it still ends up too powerful, we could go with unique, 1HP less or loss of steadfast, but I don't think it will be necessary.

[Kosmiker]

Rather have it with a double cantrip (draw a card on summon and another on death) with no shadow ability than just increasing the ability to 2SE.

[morbius]

Rather have it with a double cantrip (draw a card on summon and another on death) with no shadow ability than just increasing the ability to 2SE.

As Extractor often does not survive the turn it was summoned on, that would be a buff, not a nerf. How Praxix would rejoice to that!

[Kosmiker]

If it does not survive the turn it was summoned then the card is fine.

[BP Holy Punisher]

What if the card remain as it is and just add a passive saying: "Stardust Extractor health can't be increased". This will reduce its survivability by preventing Ele's ability or Exaltation use on it.

[Gondorian]

It seems all these suggestions are moving further and further away from the original aim of the card. It was meant to be an ally-based draw engine that could be particularly good with Elementalis because he adds health to it. It went off course when the cantrip was added and just became a generally powerful card for all Elementals to abuse. Powerful cards are good, but they need to fit with the class theme.

Thanks to all those who answered my questions directly!

[BlanketEffect]

Sorry, I thought those were question you were asking yourself to set the stage for the thread.

Answering directly:

1) Not exactly sure how you wanted this gauged, but answering it directly: Very. I'd say 4 out of 5 stars.

2) No, it should not be.

3) It is SUCH a good draw engine, it doesn't make sense to be in the class with arguably the worst draw in Shadow Era (by design, mind you).

4) Yes. How could it not?