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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Yes, you can do that. If it's not in the rules explanation, I'll fix it up to confirm that.

    EDIT: Yes, I see it was not explicitly said you could do that, so I added it for clarity.
    Thanks. So maybe we'll see more OTK decks, I already have few ideas.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Airact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Yeah, but that wouldn't be a Control deck then.

    Did you consider Dead Man's Breach as part of Control late-game win-con with these dudes? 2cc for each 4/4 hasted ally ...

    I think that's too many cards that aren't good on their own. Arthyle's Pass with Sword Gobbler is also better in an aggressive deck because you can in fact play them hasted before your opponent gets 4SE.

    But all of that relies on how consistent enabling the card is so I don't even know whether or not the card is in any way playable right now. Currently having 1 or more Frying Pans in 39 cards on turn 1 is right about 50% on the play and 56% on the draw. Having 1 or more Sword Gobblers on turn 2 is 56% on the play and 61% on the draw. You combine those and is really stops being consistent.
    Last edited by Airact; 08-07-2015 at 11:29 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airact View Post
    But all of that relies on how consistent enabling the card is so I don't even know whether or not the card is in any way playable right now. Currently having 1 or more Frying Pans in 39 cards on turn 1 is right about 50% on the play and 56% on the draw. Having 1 or more Sword Gobblers on turn 2 is 56% on the play and 61% on the draw. You combine those and is really stops being consistent.
    Same thing as Scriptures for 1cc and Avenger for 2cc on Therbin before nerf. You did not always get it, but when you did, you won most of the times.
    Also at this moment you don't know whether more kitchen hardware is going to be released for 1cc. I say lets wait until we see more cards

  4. #24
    DP Visionary ocnarb's Avatar
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    Sword Gobbler seems to fits more the other 2 archetypes than control
    White Shadow of Vozit
    Warrior of the Blue Phoenix
    Greatness, Reborn

  5. #25
    Senior Member Airact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejvo View Post
    Same thing as Scriptures for 1cc and Avenger for 2cc on Therbin before nerf. You did not always get it, but when you did, you won most of the times.
    Also at this moment you don't know whether more kitchen hardware is going to be released for 1cc. I say lets wait until we see more cards
    It's not really that similar. I think we can all agree that Scriptures is quite a bit better than Frying Pan and while Sword Gobbler is better than Avenger (being better than Avenger isn't very difficult), Scriptures without Avenger and Frying Pan without Sword Gobbler live on completely different levels. Turn 1 Scriptures into turn 2 anything pretty much still quarantees good value at some point while Frying Pan into something that's not Sword Gobbler pretty much makes your starting hand be 5 cards.

  6. #26
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    Don't see the rage over a 3/4 on turn 2. Humans can do that with Herald and any Puwen like ally.
    Raised in Exile. Trained in Kiptergarten. Mastering the ways of SE one step at a time.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Cosmic's Avatar
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    I'm liking these new two drops! Makes early game more interesting than "Oh look another Ironhide Karash". Also Feasterling has the rare and sought after (well, by me anyway) synergy with Twice Enchanted Robe!

  8. #28
    DP Visionary BlanketEffect's Avatar
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    I want to address the term "Mill" as an archetype in Shadow Era.

    As a general observation, there are almost no Mill decks out there, in the traditional sense. To win by "milling" someone (a term originating some 20 years ago from the use of Millstone, a card in the MTG card game) means literally to run them of of cards for the win. In MTG, when you are unable to draw a card from your deck (i.e., it's empty) you lose. This is not the case in Shadow Era. In Shadow Era, if you run out of cards in your deck, or even both deck and hand, you can still quite conceivably win with what you already have on the board, specific situation notwithstanding.

    "Mill" decks in Shadow Era are ultimately stalling control decks that slowly wear down the life of their opponents, opportunistically in most cases. Even when they've run their opponent out of cards, they still often rely on a secondary source of damage to finish the job, such as All Hope Is Lost, and not solely the "mill burn" damage. As stated above, your opponent can still kill you even if you've milled out his library.

    A very important note:

    It is a VERY common misconception among players that milling cards into your opponent's graveyard is equal to "dealing" with those threats. Other than the intrinsic act of putting those cards in the graveyard, and whatever benefits may arise directly or indirectly from that action, milling a card into an opponent's graveyard does absolutely NOTHING in terms of actual realtime game advantage.

    You are just as likely to mill away the crappy cards your opponent wouldn't want to be drawing against you in the late game as you are likely to get rid of his power cards. In this way, milling your opponent bestows absolutely no card advantage or definable situational advantage to you, unless you're able to, in advance, know what card(s) you're milling. Even then, you can't know what card you're going to be making available to your opponent by removing the top card of their library.

    TL;DR
    "Mill" decks don't really exist in Shadow Era in their traditional meaning (winning by running your opponent of of cards) because running out of cards doesn't end the game in Shadow Era. Secondly, milling cards into the grave is just as likely to help your opponent draw the card they need against you as it is likely to get rid of the card. It bestows no direct benefit to card advantage.
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  9. #29
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlanketEffect View Post
    It is a VERY common misconception among players that milling cards into your opponent's graveyard is equal to "dealing" with those threats. Other than the intrinsic act of putting those cards in the graveyard, and whatever benefits may arise directly or indirectly from that action, milling a card into an opponent's graveyard does absolutely NOTHING in terms of actual realtime game advantage.
    Well, I used to think this way too. But actually, in a Control deck, you want to make your opponent run out of steam to a point where you can flick the switch and go on the offensive, right? For each Jasmine in their grave, you saved a Now You're Mine, for example. If they had played it, you need to play your card. Yes, you stopped them from playing it in the first place so no net card advantage gain, but you saved an answer card. Why does this matter?

    Let's consider Wulven and their 12 main answers - 4x NYM, 4x DFA, 4x CP. How many allies are in the typical deck you might face? 18-20? If you can mill a few of them then you have saved your answer cards for what actually hits the board. Furthermore, even if there were more answers available, you don't have to run so many in your own deck and devote to your spare space to your Control late-game win-con.

    I believe that's why some people attribute milling to dealing with threats.

    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Airact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Well, I used to think this way too. But actually, in a Control deck, you want to make your opponent run out of steam to a point where you can flick the switch and go on the offensive, right? For each Jasmine in their grave, you saved a Now You're Mine, for example. If they had played it, you need to play your card. Yes, you stopped them from playing it in the first place so no net card advantage gain, but you saved an answer card. Why does this matter?

    Let's consider Wulven and their 12 main answers - 4x NYM, 4x DFA, 4x CP. How many allies are in the typical deck you might face? 18-20? If you can mill a few of them then you have saved your answer cards for what actually hits the board. Furthermore, even if there were more answers available, you don't have to run so many in your own deck and devote to your spare space to your Control late-game win-con.

    I believe that's why some people attribute milling to dealing with threats.

    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this!
    Kind of. You are forced to play on-curve allies in "Control" decks because you don't have enough disruptive cards. You kind of just hope that your allies don't become immediate card disadvantage and that's rarely a good thing. Milling has similar properties to it. Sometimes you hit and you might gain an advantage from it. Sometimes you don't and you are immediately behind on cards.

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