Why do artifacts effects fail when they break, but allies don't?

[Crazydanddgnat]

So I've been playing a bit more than I usually do recently, and one thing I've been puzzling over is how artifacts that kill themselves when activated don't have an effect, but allies do.
For example, the last cast of a durability-cost ability on an armor item has no effect, because the item is destroyed before the effect resolves.
On the other hand, a Consuming Fear'd ally's activated ability will still have an effect when used even if that kills the ally, though by the same logic I would think the ally would die before the ability resolves (seeing as how they take the damage when the ability is activated, and not when it has an effect or resolves).
Even more confusing to me is that a Consuming Fear'd ally will die before attacking (if the Consuming Fear would kill it), instead of the attack resolving. In this case, the same goes with Violet Thunderstorm (the ally attacks, but is killed before the attack resolves).
I assume this is also the case with self-damaging effects like Stardust Extractor's.

Anyone care to explain this to me?

[Ganjamus]

Consuming Fears says when the ally attacks, not when it deals damage. There's a big difference between the two.

[trevorJacobs]

... if the effect was enduring (e.g. Layarian Diplomat, Braxnorian Soldier, Gold-Laced Shield) and the source leaves play, then the effect stops (ally re-gains passive abilities, has haste again, allies go back to normal attack)

... if the effect is one-off (e.g. Stardust Extractor, Hit List) then all those effects happen (draw a card & take damage, draw 2 cards) then they are resolved (source card leaves play)

Hit List is a good example of this - it loses durability, the (one-off) effect happens, then it goes to the bin. I guess technically Gold-Laced Shield does the same - lose 1 durability, bump allies, gets binned, allies go back to normal. If there was a second ability that activited under this condition (say an ally with "if this ally has more than [x] attack, then opponent ally with lowest health is killed"), then this should trigger i guess, as it had its attack bumped between GLS activating and going to the bin - one for @Gondorian?

(as an aside, I believe this is why Furrion Terror does not kill 2HP Champion of Irum - FT's effect happens (-2HP), then CoI effect happens (+1HP) then we check to see if ally is dead (no).)

[FDL]

(as an aside, I believe this is why Furrion Terror does not kill 2HP Champion of Irum - FT's effect happens (-2HP), then CoI effect happens (+1HP) then we check to see if ally is dead (no).)

It's actually the other way around, and it's actually a little bit more complicated. There are a couple of threads on this.

Every time Champion is asked for his HP, he checks the board to see if any relevant allies are on the field. So when Furrion Terror is succesfully summoned, his ability triggers. When CoI is dealt damage, it checks his HP first, sees FT on board, gets his +1, then takes the 2 damage.

It might not be the correct verbiage, but that's the spirit of CoI's ability.

[Gondorian]

A lot of the confusion used to be over whether DMT was on the board when his 1 damage hits, since he appears to hover before hitting (actually he has been summoned, then hovers to select the target). But FT doesn't even target, so it's clear he has hit before the 2 damage happens.

It's actually the other way around, and it's actually a little bit more complicated. There are a couple of threads on this.

Every time Champion is asked for his HP, he checks the board to see if any relevant allies are on the field. So when Furrion Terror is succesfully summoned, his ability triggers. When CoI is dealt damage, it checks his HP first, sees FT on board, gets his +1, then takes the 2 damage.

It might not be the correct verbiage, but that's the spirit of CoI's ability.

Almost correct, yeah, but I want to point out that CoI never "triggers". His HP is just calculated every time anyone cares about it (e.g. to give him 2 damage AFTER an FT has been summoned).

If you consider the physical game, player B would just summon FT to board and say "Champ takes 2 damage." and player A would say "yeah, he's at 3 now due to FT being out, so he drops to 1HP". Player B then flips table ..


As for the points raised in the OP, I think trevor did a decent job answering. I prefer "ongoing" instead of "enduring" though. Ongoing effects have an implied condition that the card sustaining that effect be in play. One-shot effects do their thing and are then considered done (e.g. Fireball), which includes cases where a negative effect (e.g. poisoned, frozen) is put on a hero/ally (the act of giving the effect to them is considered a one-shot and they keep it for however many turns they are meant to).

Most of the time, losing the armor from play that ends its ongoing effect will surprise you in a bad way, but there's also tricks like Necromancer's Shroud where you have it leave play before the returned Undead is killed and then it doesn't get killed!

[Crazydanddgnat]

Okay, thanks all, I think I got it.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I remember Necromancer's Shroud at one point destroying itself before it could be activated a second time.
I'm guessing from your responses that this is not the case, so was that a bug, or am I just insane and that was never actually a thing (although then again that could be a specific interaction to prevent the second activation from being permanent)?