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  1. #21
    DP Visionary a player's Avatar
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    Many peoples' responses don't appear to adequately address the OP's concern. Inoby observed the card-animation for his initial deal, and specifically stated that he saw a 'natural' three-of-a-kind.

    Are you people claiming that the game selects six or seven cards at random, sorts them, and then animates the deal to give the illusion of natural pairs and trios? What possible reason might there be to do this?

    I have observed nothing to substantiate such a claim, and have seen the cards dealt one by one and THEN been sorted every single time I've watched.

    Please let me know if I'm off base, here, but it seems everyone is missing the point, and spouting BS....
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  2. #22
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    I did not know 'natural' meant consecutive draws, my bad.

    I took about 50 draws against the AI and got many natural pairs and two natural trios.

    Pairs are to expected. Everytime you a draw a card you have 4 of in your deck you have a 5 to 8 percent chance of drawing another copy right after.

    Natural trios should be pretty rare. Looking at my simulator, I get roughly 2% odds of drawing a natural trio in the first 7 cards drawn of a 40 card deck with 4 sets of 10 cards. So my 2 natural trios in 50 draws are a little above average (especially since my deck wasn't full of 4 ofs), but it's not abnormal either.

    Hands are indeed arranged after the whole draw, so that wouldn't explain innoby's experiences. I'm curious if GDC found anything in his investigation.
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  3. #23
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    To be clear, I'm not disputing innoby's claim. If he really got 15 natural trios in a a row, that's very weird and very very unlikely to happen.

    It's just that I have yet to be convinced that the draw generator is flawed and I'm generally just interested in the perception of probabilities (professional deformation ).

    Going a bit deeper: in a 40 card deck with 10 sets of 4 ofs, odds of drawing at least two sets of at least 2 copies of the same cards in the first 7 cards are roughly 40%. That's pretty high. You can shave a few points of percentage for a normal deck (i.e. not all 4 ofs), but it still means that in a good portion of your game, more than half of your opening hand will be made of only 2 cards.

    I can see this leading some people to believe that the draw isn't random enough.

    Still, in that 40/4 deck, you should see 5.6 (so 5 or 6) different cards in an average initial 7 card draw. Put differently, you should get, on average, 1 or two redundant copies in your opening hand. Getting 3 isn't farfetched.

    What is a random draw? 7 different cards? The odds of getting 7 different cards in that deck are only around 11%. They'll be slightly greater in a regular deck, but it's still pretty low.

    Now, it's been discussed that FFM's shuffling might not be random enough, so there could very well be something wrong in the engine. Nothing that makes the game unplayable for me though...

    Anyways, thanks for indulging me.
    Last edited by FDL; 04-14-2015 at 03:11 PM.
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  4. #24
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by innoby View Post
    I cannot and will not play this game until you fix the damn draw randomization. EVERY DAMN GAME I DRAW A NATURAL 3 of a kind (all three of the same card in a row). This is not even statistically probable. That's a =0.0368421% chance. It has happened 15 times in a row, that cannot be allowed to happen. I can't play a card game where the rng is sticking cards that are useless in multiples together...
    Quote Originally Posted by innoby View Post
    Bp innoby
    Your last three logged 2.89 games were played 6th April, 6th April and 23rd March.

    Your only logged 2.90 game was played 13th April.

    Which games were you referring to where you got the 3-of-a-kind in each starting hand? Did you quit them all before they were logged (too short) or were they against the AI?

  5. #25
    DP Visionary Shadow Mann's Avatar
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    If you want a perfect draw every game...just go with a MONSTER-sized deck!
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Mann View Post
    If you want a perfect draw every game...just go with a MONSTER-sized deck!
    get outta heaaaaaa!!!!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Expected Value's Avatar
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    I too would like this investigated as I have felt for a long time that something unusual happens with shuffling after creating a new deck.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Airact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expected Value View Post
    I too would like this investigated as I have felt for a long time that something unusual happens with shuffling after creating a new deck.
    The Shuffle Bug is back people!

  9. #29
    Member innoby's Avatar
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    I want to tune a functional deck, but I can't because it becomes inoperable everyone I tweak card counts. I've more or less quit playing because of the card draw errors. I don't mind pairs, but triplicate? It should be more rare than it is. I think the method of shuffling is totally wrong to produce the results I've seen.

    I kept track for awhile, but then got so frustrated that I couldn't play. Prior to the March games, I had a run with triples in my starting hand, or I would repeat the last card drawn until I had a triple. That was 5 games in a row...in case you wonder why my game count is so low.
    If this game played with poker rules I'd be undefeated

  10. #30
    Member innoby's Avatar
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    Seen that deck shadow, it's brutal...
    If this game played with poker rules I'd be undefeated

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