Nerf Bloodpack Shaman?

[Ross013]

I've been asking for a nerf on bps for a LONG time!

We have all the firesnakes! We are ultimate over 9000 OP



But seriously, shaman isn't THAT powerful

[Preybird]

Most of your arguments involve other cards and a hero with a strong ability. If anything, nerf MS!

This is the thing, Shaman is a single cog in the machine. A vital cog, but just one nonetheless. He will never win games by himself, not even with 4 of them. He needs draw support, damage support and protection to have a snowballs chance in hell of impacting the game.

Also what Federer said is extremely insightful.

[hendrickson]

I don't have time to do a whole 10 point list, but I can make 1 point.

1. It's overpowered!

[Delay of Game]

Bloodpack Shaman is the root of all evil. He's a sketchy fellow, and I don't like the way he looks at me. Definitely should be nerfed.

...but then again, I run Evil Ascendant, so Shaman has no power over me.

P.S. Hey Federer, although I can appreciate your well-articulated comment, you kinda lost credibility in your last paragraph when you ripped on Millstalker/Lone Wolf. And your declining tennis performance is hard to watch sometimes . But I'm still a fan.

[Delay of Game]

Did I mention that I hate playing against those damn Shaman loop decks? 'Cuz I do.

not because it can't be beat, but because I swear those players act like they were sent here to cleanse the world of evil.

[LucasBlitz]

Yes.

[busti]

I've have a lot of experience playing shaman/moonstalker decks. These are my opinions from experience and why I think shaman is a very strong but balanced card:

1. hard countered by ascendant of evil - any deck reliant on shamans is likely going to be close to an instant loss v a deck running 4x Aoe
2. hard countered by spirit warden/ death collector
3. 1 health is an enormous disadvantage, any ping instantly kills it - hunters gambit trades with interest, prod from wizents, anything with haste, the list is LONG - there is a tonne of counter-play vs shamans.
4. Shaman can win you games going first, but then again the same can be said for pewen/aldon or karash/dmt. Inversely shaman is often a worthless card when playing second, without board control it has little impact or not even worth playing - trading 0-1. Bloodmoon turn 2 is usually stronger than shaman.
5. anything works with death from above - this tells more about the strength of death from above not shaman
6. every ally in graveyard must be wulvern - thus you are forced to play 100% wulvern allies
7. shamans are often one of the 'win conditions' of all wulvern decks. Thus some cards need to shine in all wulvern decks - otherwise why play them?
8. Moonstalker is and always has been broken
- Most human heroes have very poor tools at their disposal to counter stealth - thus moonstalker can abuse this for an easy win - especially if exploiting shadow font. This is not an issue specific to shamans
- undead decks, millstalker, groms whip decks can all stall effectively
9. you could say infinite loop is 'not fair'?. However all the strong heros/classes need to have 'unfair' element to them to give them an edge.
10. the meta doesn't lie - wulvern moonstlaker decks are rarely seen. If they were super strong everyone would be playing them.

It is defiantly a very strong card, but at this same time it needs to be as it is one of the 'lynch pins' or 'winning conditions' of all wulvern decks.
There is plenty of sufficient/strong counter-play vs shamans, therefore it cannot be considered OP.

The same cannot be said for a cards such as lone wolf, or spamming delays/stalls on moonstalker. where does the counter-play come from? to me this is the issue

Excellent post, agreed

[segalion]

I can just suggest to make him a 2/1 instead of 3/1. His ability is what make him not his stats and with 2/1 stats you don't need to take care of him ASAP so that will allow some breathing room yo opposing players while still keeping guys functionality

[Delay of Game]

I can just suggest to make him a 2/1 instead of 3/1. His ability is what make him not his stats and with 2/1 stats you don't need to take care of him ASAP so that will allow some breathing room yo opposing players while still keeping guys functionality

What?...that's like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

Shaman loops and Dread Wolf...and when you think it can't get any more messed up, Griptooth comes out to play....

...when I get bored trolling people with Millstalker, I use that deck to troll. Actually more fun.


Bloodpack Shaman must be destroyed. The fate of our civilization depends on it!

[Airact]

Should Bloodpack Shaman be nerfed? Is it too strong?

I say yes:
1. It costs 2cc for a 3/1 body (Blake)

Blake is a bad card so that comparison isn't that relevant

2. You can return ANY 3cc or less Wulven ally to your hand

It's about as powerful as it returning only other Bloodpack Shamans. I think we need better 3cc or under Wulven allies

3. It can be used to loop itself. For 6cc you can play 3 3/1 allies EVERY turn.

Yes, on like turn thirteen

4. When combined with WotF, draw is insane (in the membrane).

It is, as long as you keep killing them.

5. It works with Death from Above to kill ANY 4cc or less ally.

It's a Wulven ally so yes, it does that

6. It can stall long enough to allow Moonstalker to get up to 9 shadow energy.

If you let it do that, yes. It does still need multiple copies for that, though

7. Did I mention it creates an ENDLESS loop?

If you don't answer it, yes. It's not powerful until like turn thirteen or so.

What are your thoughts?

Not much. I think it's a strong card.