Nerf Bloodpack Shaman?

[Airact]

*snip*

All of this is assuming that the card is actually broken, which we don't know yet. The last thing we need is more unnecessary nerfs.

I think the second suggestion is fine if we find out that the card is in fact broken.

[LucasBlitz]

which heroe/s is BPS single handedly preventing from being a tier 1 champion? that's a pretty big statement. Seeing as there are countless opportunities for counter-play vs BPSs. I 100% agree that Moonstalker has dictated the meta for a long time and prevents a lot of heroes (mainly human) being t1 because of their inability to deal with stealth.

There are 2 schools of thought in this thread
1. Players that play or have played wulvern moonstalker - and know from experience the strengths/weaknesses/balance of the overall deck (not one card - BPS). Have extensive knowledge of each matchup.

2. players that don't play wulvern moonstalker and are 'theorycrafing' without experience using them (not just against them), sitting on the other side of the fence calling for nerfs. Most people all into this category.

Obviously every player is bias depending on their champion pool.

If people think that one dimensional BPS moonstalker decks are soo OP - i suggest players go out and play it in the current hunter dominated meta and you will be frustrated at times to see how easily BPS's are dealt with.

Actually playing wulven moon isnt that hard unless its banebow. You can laugh at Victor, BB, and Gwen with wulven moon since they can't deal with MS in general. The only weakness you can have would be bad draw (but then again what hero doesn't suffer from it) and playing into stuff Victor and BB ability/stealth control play therefore weakening your plays. The only hunter MS has a problem would be BB but that's just cause he has access to direct damage other than that Wulven MS is solid.

[Warr Byrd]

Actually playing wulven moon isnt that hard unless its banebow. You can laugh at Victor, BB, and Gwen with wulven moon since they can't deal with MS in general. The only weakness you can have would be bad draw (but then again what hero doesn't suffer from it) and playing into stuff Victor and BB ability/stealth control play therefore weakening your plays. The only hunter MS has a problem would be BB but that's just cause he has access to direct damage other than that Wulven MS is solid.

Actually, Victor is the only hunter that can't easily deal with BPS. Gwen and Baduruu all run Grundler's Double and Snowland Spotter or Rapid Fire, allowing them to take out two behind stealth. BB of course has direct damage. Skervox poisons them all. Ythan ability allows double hitting behind stealth. Not to mention that they all run 4x Hunter's Gambit, which is an auto kill for BPS.

[LucasBlitz]

I actually forgot about Ythan and Skervox. While gwen does have the ability to carry grundlers most dont due to its high cost and the fact you want to hit face anyway. So in sense the only bad hunter MUs for MS would be Ythan, Skervox and Badurru by default. But then again this is just "theorycrafting"

[FDL]

My problem is that it limits which heroes can be tier 1, thereby making the game less balanced than it otherwise could be.

That can be said of any Tier 1 deck though. They all warp the metagame.

Actually, I think the metagame is varied enough that you can play a deck that is soft to Moonstalker or Banebow and still get a decent win rate.

Moonstalker is a unique Hero that is very hard to beat for a number of Heroes. Right now, BPS just happens to be his best card. If it did not exist, Undead MS would be around. Or Fire Fatty MS. Or Good Stuff MS. And they would hard counter the same decks BPS MS does.

MS will always find his way in QM/tournament because he gets free wins here and there (like any Tier 1 deck mind you, otherwise, it's not a Tier 1 deck).

[Ganjamus]

The only reason this card seems problematic is due to MS's ability. Humans have a hard time with Stealth because their only hard counter (Nowhere to Hide) is complete crap against every other deck. Nocturnal Advantage at least boosts all of your allies, so it has uses when not against Stealth.

[bobrossw]

All of this is assuming that the card is actually broken, which we don't know yet. The last thing we need is more unnecessary nerfs.

I think the second suggestion is fine if we find out that the card is in fact broken.

what would it take to know if it's broken? It's a 5cc ally ability on a 2cc ally with normal 2cc ally stats...i.e. a ridiculously undercosted card, and it single-handedly makes for some very unbalanced matchups.

[Shadow Mann]

what would it take to know if it's broken? It's a 5cc ally ability on a 2cc ally with normal 2cc ally stats...i.e. a ridiculously undercosted card, and it single-handedly makes for some very unbalanced matchups.

I agree...bps is a 2cc ally that gives draw (and can make an infinite loop)...and it's stats are on par with all 2cc allies without an ability. Certainly seems broken to me.

[Warr Byrd]

what would it take to know if it's broken? It's a 5cc ally ability on a 2cc ally with normal 2cc ally stats...i.e. a ridiculously undercosted card, and it single-handedly makes for some very unbalanced matchups.

The ability has two restrictions on it, and the only 2cc ally whose stats it matches is both faction as opposed to class and is among the worst 2cc allies. It may be undercosted, but not ridiculously so, and it does not single-handedly make for unbalanced matchups, it almost always has to be paired with MS ability.

[LucasBlitz]

Restrictions or not he can still loop himself. That's the main issue here, even Bloodfang can run BPS with some success (not as much as MS) because its a 3/1 that trumps other allies by stats alone.