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View Poll Results: Nerf Bloodpack Shaman?

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  • SamuelJ is right it's way too strong!

    25 32.47%
  • It's a tad too powerful.

    17 22.08%
  • It's fine as is, stop nerfing!

    35 45.45%
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  1. #1
    Chat Mod SamuelJ's Avatar
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    Nerf Bloodpack Shaman?

    Should Bloodpack Shaman be nerfed? Is it too strong?

    I say yes:
    1. It costs 2cc for a 3/1 body (Blake)
    2. You can return ANY 3cc or less Wulven ally to your hand
    3. It can be used to loop itself. For 6cc you can play 3 3/1 allies EVERY turn.
    4. When combined with WotF, draw is insane (in the membrane).
    5. It works with Death from Above to kill ANY 4cc or less ally.
    6. It can stall long enough to allow Moonstalker to get up to 9 shadow energy.
    7. Did I mention it creates an ENDLESS loop?
    8. I don't like ending on odd numbers.


    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Member d31m's Avatar
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    Yeah, I agree Sam.

    Thinking about what could be done if the DT also agreed... Perhaps change it to a 2/2 or 1/3 with an ability more like Shadow Knight, where it targets the top =< 3 cost Wulven ally. I know this was previously implimented, not sure why it was reverted.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by d31m View Post
    Yeah, I agree Sam.

    Thinking about what could be done if the DT also agreed... Perhaps change it to a 2/2 or 1/3 with an ability more like Shadow Knight, where it targets the top =< 3 cost Wulven ally. I know this was previously implimented, not sure why it was reverted.
    Maybe because it was rather useless when nerfed.
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  4. #4
    DP Visionary Warr Byrd's Avatar
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    If comparison to Blake is the main basis of your argument, then you are barking up the wrong tree. First off, Blake is faction and Bloodpack Shaman is class, so it is supposed to be more powerful. Second, Blake is among the least used of 2cc allies, at least in my experience, surpassed only by Katrin the Shieldmaiden among human allies.

    To repeatedly play 3 3/1 allies every turn, you need to draw all four. Assuming a 39+Hero deck, even drawing 30 cards only gives you a roughly 1/3 chance of this happening. In 20 cards, the probability is less than 5%. Stats don't lie, making a BPS army just isn't that likely in any given game.

    If you have board control before the BPS happens, dealing with 1 health creatures is annoying but easy. If you don't have board control, you were probably going to lose without a board wipe anyways.
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  5. #5
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    It's only strong in combination with other cards, on its own it's pretty useless. It doesn't matter how many times you loop it, it's easy to deal with, and only really viable if you can hide it with moonstalker, but even then you can't take it for granted. It's very rare you'll get 3 shamans looping together, let alone the 4th, it's HOW you use it, and WHAT you use it with that makes it strong, just like most other cards in the game.

    We can't keep nerfing cards as soon as people find a good use for it
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  6. #6
    Chat Mod SamuelJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross013 View Post
    We can't keep nerfing cards as soon as people find a good use for it
    I've been asking for a nerf on bps for a LONG time!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Buqs's Avatar
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    well he can kill puwen and we know he's op .....
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  8. #8
    Chat Mod SamuelJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buqs View Post
    well he can kill puwen and we know he's op .....
    I knew I forgot something in my list...

  9. #9
    Member RogerFederer's Avatar
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    I've have a lot of experience playing shaman/moonstalker decks. These are my opinions from experience and why I think shaman is a very strong but balanced card:

    1. hard countered by ascendant of evil - any deck reliant on shamans is likely going to be close to an instant loss v a deck running 4x Aoe
    2. hard countered by spirit warden/ death collector
    3. 1 health is an enormous disadvantage, any ping instantly kills it - hunters gambit trades with interest, prod from wizents, anything with haste, the list is LONG - there is a tonne of counter-play vs shamans.
    4. Shaman can win you games going first, but then again the same can be said for pewen/aldon or karash/dmt. Inversely shaman is often a worthless card when playing second, without board control it has little impact or not even worth playing - trading 0-1. Bloodmoon turn 2 is usually stronger than shaman.
    5. anything works with death from above - this tells more about the strength of death from above not shaman
    6. every ally in graveyard must be wulvern - thus you are forced to play 100% wulvern allies
    7. shamans are often one of the 'win conditions' of all wulvern decks. Thus some cards need to shine in all wulvern decks - otherwise why play them?
    8. Moonstalker is and always has been broken
    - Most human heroes have very poor tools at their disposal to counter stealth - thus moonstalker can abuse this for an easy win - especially if exploiting shadow font. This is not an issue specific to shamans
    - undead decks, millstalker, groms whip decks can all stall effectively
    9. you could say infinite loop is 'not fair'?. However all the strong heros/classes need to have 'unfair' element to them to give them an edge.
    10. the meta doesn't lie - wulvern moonstlaker decks are rarely seen. If they were super strong everyone would be playing them.

    It is defiantly a very strong card, but at this same time it needs to be as it is one of the 'lynch pins' or 'winning conditions' of all wulvern decks.
    There is plenty of sufficient/strong counter-play vs shamans, therefore it cannot be considered OP.

    The same cannot be said for a cards such as lone wolf, or spamming delays/stalls on moonstalker. where does the counter-play come from? to me this is the issue
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuelJ View Post
    Should Bloodpack Shaman be nerfed? Is it too strong?

    I say yes:
    1. It costs 2cc for a 3/1 body (Blake)
    2. You can return ANY 3cc or less Wulven ally to your hand
    3. It can be used to loop itself. For 6cc you can play 3 3/1 allies EVERY turn.
    4. When combined with WotF, draw is insane (in the membrane).
    5. It works with Death from Above to kill ANY 4cc or less ally.
    6. It can stall long enough to allow Moonstalker to get up to 9 shadow energy.
    7. Did I mention it creates an ENDLESS loop?
    8. I don't like ending on odd numbers.


    What are your thoughts?
    Most of your arguments involve other cards and a hero with a strong ability. If anything, nerf MS!
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