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  1. #1
    DP Visionary raizoir's Avatar
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    Suggested Changes for a few SF Rogue Cards

    There are a few rogue cards which I would argue could be changed slightly to support the development of new themes in future expansions. In addition, the suggested changes will also help improve the playability of 3 (Repaid in Full, Vozitian Trader and Wily Smuggler) of the 4 cards discussed.


    1. Garth Ravensoul


    Current stats and effect: Hero - 3SE - Target opposing ally takes 1 damage and all other damage to that ally is doubled until the start of your next turn.

    Suggested change: Hero - 3SE - Target opposing ally takes 1 poison damage and all other damage to that ally is doubled until the start of your next turn.

    NOTE: Just to clear any confusion, the change is only changing the type of damage dealt, the target will not be poisoned. Therefore the effect will act exactly as it does now but the change will make it easier for the design team to implement future poison themed ally or ability cards which will highlight Garth’s proficiency with poison. This is discussed in more detail below.

    Reason: I know a few have suggested this before but the argument put forward was solely based on favour and as such, the suggestion got shot down. I instead would argue for the change on the basis that it will be easier to implement poison themed abilities and allies in the future which will highlight Garth’s proficiency with poison. For example, a poison themed ally or ability card would have its core effect e.g. deal x damage, and if the target is poisoned or has already been dealt poison damage to during this turn, the additional effect of the card would trigger. This additional effect could be:

    • reduce the cost of the card by x (since the target has already been affected to a degree, less poison can be used to achieve the core effect and therefore less resources used)
    • enhance the core effect e.g. additional damage, longer duration or affects an additional target

    While such cards would be rated okay for the other rogues, the cards would be rated good for Garth, as his effect will allow you to trigger the additional effect more often. It should be noted that I am not suggesting that all poison cards will require such additional effects, but more so a handful.


    2. Repaid in Full


    Current stats and effect: Rogue Ability - 2 cc - If an ally was killed this turn, draw 2 cards.

    Suggested change: Rogue Ability - 2 cc - If an ally was killed this turn, draw 2 cards; if the ally was your own, gain one resource until the end of your turn.

    Reason: I cannot shake off the belief that this card is slightly underpowered for its cost, and a tiny buff as suggested would be needed. I prefer a temporary resource gain over renewing one resource as I have seen others suggest, to allow for the possibility of having future rogue cards with an effect that can only activate if your total resources are greater than your opponent’s.

    I further believe that the suggested change will be beneficial as it will moderately boost future rogue (most likely Garth) swarm decks by slightly helping them to keep up the pressure on the opponent in cases where one of the little guys will have to die e.g. attacking a hero with a weapon equipped. It should also be taken into account that possible future swarm themed rogue cards could have effects similar to the following which would work with the suggested change:

    • an ability card which if you control fewer allies than your opponent, will put two 1 cost 1/1 rogue ally tokens with haste onto your field until the end of your turn, which you could use to kamikaze them into your opponent’s weapon to wear its durability down
    • an ally which will deal x poison damage to the killer, which can set up other poison cards as mentioned in the reason for the addition of “poison” in Garth’s effect above
    • an ally which causes the killer’s owner to temporarily lose one resource until the end of their next turn
    • an ally which when killed, summons a rogue ally token

    In addition, it could also be possible that Final Flourish, with the help of Coercion, would be playable in such swarm decks.

    The buff may also lower the drawback of having one of your allies bite the dust to line up a Fan of Blades attack in a Serena aggro-control deck, a deck which I view will be more reliant on RiF than IGG when the theme becomes playable in future expansions.

    Deck(s): Garth (swarm-control) and Serena (aggro-control).

    Flavour: Rogues take advantage of every situation and in this case the rogue is just selling the dead ally’s belongings, but because it is a one-off gain, the resource gain is temporary.


    3. Vozitian Trader


    Current stats and effect: Rogue Ally - 3 cc - 3/4 - When you summon an item, Vozitian Trader gains +1 base attack.

    Suggested change: Rogue Ally - 3 cc - 3/4 - When you summon an item, or one enters a graveyard during your turn, Vozitian Trader gains +1 base attack and until the start of your next turn, all damage dealt to Vozitian Trader is reduced up to a maximum of 1.

    NOTE: Just to confirm the wording, any graveyard is intentional (so it can trigger from Serena’s effect if you get lucky and when you play Anarchic Looting in 2v2), and if you had a weapon equipped and you played a new weapon, Vozitian Trader’s base attack would be permanently increase by 2 and all damage dealt to Vozitian Trader would be reduced by 1.

    Also, as Vozitian Trader has a Swashbuckler vibe to him, the reduced damage is to reflect him partly parrying an attack.

    Reason: I would lean towards the opinion that Aetherborn Wisp would outclass Vozitian Trader in a Serena aggro-control deck when one emerges, the sole deck in which Vozitian Trader would be playable in.

    The two main reasons for this are Vozitian Trader’s effect does not improve his survivability and even with a Serena aggro-control deck running numerous items, the triggering of Vozitian Trader’s effect is restricted due to the nature of items. In comparison, Aetherborn Wisp’s effect also boosts its health and the ways to trigger the effect will work alongside a Serena aggro-control deck better. For example, in addition to Serena’s effect, cards such as Glimmer of Hope, Tenacious Buccaneer and Thoughtripper's Cutlass would be playable in such a deck.

    The suggested change will allow a player who wishes to create a Serena aggro-control deck in future expansions to choose either a discard or an item centric theme. In addition, a possible card which could be released to benefit both themes would be a rogue ally with the effect “When Rogue Ally x is summoned, draw a card from your deck and choose a card in your hand to discard; if the discarded card was an item, gain 1 resource”.

    Deck(s): Serena (aggro-control and possibly midrange).


    4. Wily Smuggler


    Current stats and effect: Rogue Ally - 3 cc - 2/5 - 0: If you summoned an item this turn, 2 used resources are renewed.

    Suggested change: Rogue Ally - Unique - 3 cc - 1/5 - The first item with durability you summon this turn costs 2 less resources and loses 1 durability.

    Reason: While this change will prevent IGG + BS on T4, you will be able to play Fan of Blades on T4 in a Serena aggro-control deck instead which fits Serena’s style better. In addition, with a passive effect instead of an activate effect the suggested change should help improve the speed of a Serena aggro-control deck, and may also encourage the use of Aldmor Accelerator in such a deck.

    It should be noted the loss of durability would not have much of a drawback for Fan of Blades, as most of the time you only get to attack three targets at once. For other items, a Serena aggro-control deck will be running Skilled Ironmonger and possibly Lily Rosecult.

    Additional Comments: Some of replies pointed out Spirit Shuriken being better than FoB and the health allies typical have now being major problems for FoB, which I agree. I have copied and pasted my reply below showing that I consider the change to Wily Smuggler being the first step of making FoB playable again (at least in a Serena aggro-control deck).

    I agree in a typical Serena deck Spirit Shuriken outshines FoB, along with 4 and 5 health allies still being the major bane of FoB. I however consider the suggested change for Wily Smuggler as the first step of making FoB playable again (at least in a Serena aggro-control deck).

    The next step would be to introduce a card which can increase a weapon’s damage, even if it is only by one, and given that TC’s requirement was raised from 3 attack to 4 attack, I would not be surprised to see a card with this effect in the next expansion (although it just be due to the fact Serena increases it damage to 4). A card I suggested awhile back to help FoB when you use Serena’s effect to hit 4 damage and even 5 depending on your resources was the following:

    Rogue Ally x - 3 cc - 2/4 - When Rogue Ally x is summoned, target opposing ally or weapon loses 1 attack and target other friendly ally or weapon gains 1 attack until the start of your next turn. If Rogue Ally x targets an opposing ally with 0 attack when summoned, that ally receives 2 damage.

    After these steps, the key cards a Serena aggro-control deck would be Fan of Blades, Wily Smuggler, Rogue Ally x, Vision of Endia, Backstab, Zailen Crusader, Skilled Ironmonger, Black Garb and Repaid in Full. Overall for a Serena aggro-control deck, 4 and 5 health allies should be easier to take down with FoB.

    Deck(s): Serena (aggro-control).

    Flavour: You get items on the cheap, but due to the non-standard procurement method used by Wily Smuggler, the item is slightly damaged.

    Flavour text: You get what you pay for.
    Last edited by raizoir; 02-08-2015 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Additional comments for Wily Smuggler

  2. #2
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    1. Garth gets to poison stuff for free? YES. I'll never use Garth's Concoction again!
    2. Anything better on repaid sounds good at this point however an extra resource might not help (since youre casting RiF anyway)
    3.So basically When you summon or discard an item, Vozitian Trader gains +1 base attack and 1 reduced damage. Cool i guess.
    4. Naw, FoB is too expensive anyway and pretty mediocre imo Spirit Shuriken has much more value than FoB ever will.
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  3. #3
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    1. So it deals Poison damage but it doesn't poison the ally, right? I don't really see the point considering nothing really combos with Poison damage other than Bounty Hunter. I'm also guessing the DT doesn't want to make it Poison damage because it does not, in fact, poison the ally.

    2. Not sure it would change much and you're relying too much on hypothetical cards that would only be made to benefit from Repaid in Full.

    3. Too much value. I would drop the damage reduction ability.

    4. This wouldn't make people use Fan of Blades again (which is bad because of how much HP allies have nowadays), it would only encourage an early Cutlass.
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    Senior Member maxi1230's Avatar
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    1. Great.
    2. Better would be an Item with 1 durability.
    3. 2. would make it good.
    4. 2. would make it good.
    5. Metamorphic Cloak would have an usage.

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  5. #5
    DP Visionary raizoir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucasBlitz View Post
    1. Garth gets to poison stuff for free? YES. I'll never use Garth's Concoction again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganjamus View Post
    1. So it deals Poison damage but it doesn't poison the ally, right? I don't really see the point considering nothing really combos with Poison damage other than Bounty Hunter. I'm also guessing the DT doesn't want to make it Poison damage because it does not, in fact, poison the ally.
    Just to confirm, the change is only changing the type of damage dealt, the target will not be poisoned. The main point of the change is to make it easier for the DT to implement future poison themed ally or ability cards which will highlight Garth’s proficiency with poison. I will add this note to my original post just to make sure there is no confusion with new readers.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucasBlitz View Post
    4. Naw, FoB is too expensive anyway and pretty mediocre imo Spirit Shuriken has much more value than FoB ever will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganjamus View Post

    4. This wouldn't make people use Fan of Blades again (which is bad because of how much HP allies have nowadays), it would only encourage an early Cutlass.
    I agree in a typical Serena deck Spirit Shuriken outshines FoB, along with 4 and 5 health allies still being the major bane of FoB. I however consider the suggested change for Wily Smuggler as the first step of making FoB playable again (at least in a Serena aggro-control deck).

    The next step would be to introduce a card which can increase a weapon’s damage, even if it is only by one, and given that TC’s requirement was raised from 3 attack to 4 attack, I would not be surprised to see a card with this effect in the next expansion (although it just be due to the fact Serena increases it damage to 4). A card I suggested awhile back to help FoB when you use Serena’s effect to hit 4 damage and even 5 damage depending on your resources was the following:

    Rogue Ally x - 3 cc - 2/4 - When Rogue Ally x is summoned, target opposing ally or weapon loses 1 attack and target other friendly ally or weapon gains 1 attack until the start of your next turn. If Rogue Ally x targets an opposing ally with 0 attack when summoned, that ally receives 2 damage.

    After these steps, the key cards of a Serena aggro-control deck would be Fan of Blades, Wily Smuggler, Rogue Ally x, Vision of Endia, Backstab, Zailen Crusader, Skilled Ironmonger, Black Garb and Repaid in Full. Overall, for a Serena aggro-control deck, 4 and 5 health allies should be easier to take down with FoB but without the change to Wily Smuggler, the deck will just be too slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxi1230 View Post
    5. Metamorphic Cloak would have an usage.
    That would be great.

  6. #6
    Member Acatacka's Avatar
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    To get use out of fob again how about an ally x cost 4 stats 1/6

    When ally x is in play weapons and armour with cost 6 or more cost one less resource to summon. When attacking allies, your weapons gain plus 1 attack for every attack carried out until the end of your turn,
    up to a maximum 5 attack.

    The wording could be more elegant. Basically you still only do 3 damage to hero with FOB boosted by Serena's ability, but for each ally you hit you get +1 attack. So if you hit 4 allies you could do 3 damage to the first then 4,5,5. It wouldn't work with other weapons
    You can also get SEB in play T5 which could be a lifesaver vs Aramia

  7. #7
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raizoir View Post
    Just to confirm, the change is only changing the type of damage dealt, the target will not be poisoned. The main point of the change is to make it easier for the DT to implement future poison themed ally or ability cards which will highlight Garth’s proficiency with poison. I will add this note to my original post just to make sure there is no confusion with new readers.
    Sounds useless in that case. Might as well have him do fire damage and it still wouldn't change anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by raizoir View Post
    I agree in a typical Serena deck Spirit Shuriken outshines FoB, along with 4 and 5 health allies still being the major bane of FoB. I however consider the suggested change for Wily Smuggler as the first step of making FoB playable again (at least in a Serena aggro-control deck).

    The next step would be to introduce a card which can increase a weapon’s damage, even if it is only by one, and given that TC’s requirement was raised from 3 attack to 4 attack, I would not be surprised to see a card with this effect in the next expansion (although it just be due to the fact Serena increases it damage to 4). A card I suggested awhile back to help FoB when you use Serena’s effect to hit 4 damage and even 5 damage depending on your resources was the following:

    Rogue Ally x - 3 cc - 2/4 - When Rogue Ally x is summoned, target opposing ally or weapon loses 1 attack and target other friendly ally or weapon gains 1 attack until the start of your next turn. If Rogue Ally x targets an opposing ally with 0 attack when summoned, that ally receives 2 damage.

    After these steps, the key cards of a Serena aggro-control deck would be Fan of Blades, Wily Smuggler, Rogue Ally x, Vision of Endia, Backstab, Zailen Crusader, Skilled Ironmonger, Black Garb and Repaid in Full. Overall, for a Serena aggro-control deck, 4 and 5 health allies should be easier to take down with FoB but without the change to Wily Smuggler, the deck will just be too slow.
    That sounds ridiculously OP it's basically the whole dagger of fate thing. No one in their right minds would waste 5 damage on an ally (unless emergencies) instead of just hitting face. Serena is fine as is she doesn't need anything more considering she's borderline OP.
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง
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  8. #8
    DP Visionary Index's Avatar
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    These changes sounds great!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Romantic Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucasBlitz View Post
    Serena is fine as is she doesn't need anything more considering she's borderline OP.
    I was going to comment, but I'll just +1 this instead.

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    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Great write up Raizoir.

    Excellent suggestions. +1

    My limited suggestion would be that the 'reduced damage' to Vozitian Trader is maybe too much bonus.

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