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  1. #1
    Senior Member PriestAmar's Avatar
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    Garth's Concoction (Balance Change Proposal)

    Since this card is still in beta, I would like to propose a change for the upcoming updates.

    As you know all classes have a way to control the board. Priest's Zail's Hymn, Mages fireball, Warriors Crippling blow, Wulven's death from above, Hunter's poison arrow, which are all similar to Garth's Concoction. The difference is none of those cards requires you to exhaust you hero while GC does.

    If you ever played rogues, specially Serena, you also know that you depend on your hero. You need your hero. Exhausting your hero, specially later in game is a big tax. Now one may argue this card was meant to be used between T3-T5, but why is that? Rogues already lack board presence. They can't fill the board like mages, or wulven's. They can't control the board like priests. They, and their allies do not have raw damage power like some other classes either. Their abilities require a fine calculation and good luck. No match-up is a sure win for them. I don't see a reason to tax the few ability cards they have since all other classes can use similar abilities with no restriction (such as exhaust)

    Therefore I am proposing to change Garth's Concoction to following: Target opposing ally takes 3 poison damage and is poisoned. (from: Exhaust your hero: target opposing ally takes 3 poison damage and is poisoned.)

    Since this ability can't target opposing hero, I think it's reasonable to expect using this ability and your hero in the same turn.

    I would like to hear your opinion on this. I know rogues disrupt your game and some non-rogue players have a dislike towards them, but please take this proposal into consideration soley from balance perspective and in comparison with other classes support abilities.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by PriestAmar; 01-18-2015 at 08:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Delay of Game's Avatar
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    So it's not enough that evil women like Serena takes my cards and destroys my stuff,...now you want pesky Rogues to poison us while we sleep??

    Stop Thief should be completely removed from the game. Then there will be peace and balance...and harmony across the world.

  3. #3
    Senior Member lorgi's Avatar
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    it's meant for Garth and it's fine as it is...
    would it be OP with the modification? ofc not, but it would make assassination useless (more-less) and assassination is your removal of choice in Lance and Serena...btw. I used concoction in Serena on T3 going second and on SE refilling turns and it worked very well

    btw. I play and design almost exclusively Rogue decks...
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  4. #4
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    While as an avid Garf player I would LOVE this but mind you this would make garf OP. Especially if you have a spirit shuriken and lots of opposing allies on board or even with just anklebreaker. If garf's concoction didn't exhaust the hero thats his ability, free concoc and anklebreaker plays which could easily decimate anyones board. I mean I know I'd abuse that card.

    Serena on the other hand... I dunno don't play her much.

    Lance is a possible buff, but then again hasted, stealth, ambush allies + concoc is good anyway since lance doesnt rely solely on weapons
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง
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  5. #5
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delay of Game View Post
    So it's not enough that evil women like Serena takes my cards and destroys my stuff,...now you want pesky Rogues to poison us while we sleep??

    Stop Thief should be completely removed from the game. Then there will be peace and balance...and harmony across the world.
    Anarchic Looting.
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง
    Justiciar of the Audacious
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    Greatness, Reborn

    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car." -- Author Unknown
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง

  6. #6
    Senior Member Daemon Rayge's Avatar
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    I personally think it is fine. You have to remember the only time your Hero is exhausted is after they attack. So you are still free to use their ability first, and then play this, without any drawback. Although, this only works for Lance and its namesake, rather than Serna.

    Lance can use his ability, Haste an ally in, and then you can play this to kill. Although this is more of a midgame play compared to early game. Garth, although most people played him weapon based (From my past experience from QM), you have to remember that all damage sources are doubled. So this card essentially becomes an immediate 6 damage for 3cc, with 8 damage total if you wait a turn for the poison to kick in and do its first tick of damage.

    Even in a Serena Deck, it has some utility. During a turn you don't have a weapon out, you can use his as a pseudo-Fireball to take out or weaken an ally. Or just use this as ally removal for their T3 drop etc.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member PriestAmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorgi View Post
    it's meant for Garth and it's fine as it is...
    would it be OP with the modification? ofc not, but it would make assassination useless (more-less) and assassination is your removal of choice in Lance and Serena...btw. I used concoction in Serena on T3 going second and on SE refilling turns and it worked very well

    btw. I play and design almost exclusively Rogue decks...
    Assassination requires you to have an ally on board. Garth's works better when you are using a deck which is not ally heavy. I don't think they are necessarily interchangeable. One wouldn't replace the other or make less usable.

    (From my past experience from QM), you have to remember that all damage sources are doubled. So this card essentially becomes an immediate 6 damage for 3cc, with 8 damage total if you wait a turn for the poison to kick in and do its first tick of damage.
    While as an avid Garf player I would LOVE this but mind you this would make garf OP. Especially if you have a spirit shuriken and lots of opposing allies on board or even with just anklebreaker. If garf's concoction didn't exhaust the hero thats his ability, free concoc and anklebreaker plays which could easily decimate anyones board. I mean I know I'd abuse that card.
    Thats true but do other classes have not similar opportunities? Do wulvens, mages, hunters lack any chance of using these kind support abilities and their hero at the same time? Of course such a change would create new opportunities for rogues but they are far away from being the strongest class in the current meta. Why tax them any further? Other classes have some great combos and rogues are forced to make difficult choices at every turn.

    Let me put my question this way. Do you think such a change would bring GC on par with the similar abilities, or do you think it would become more powerful than them?
    Last edited by PriestAmar; 01-18-2015 at 09:05 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PriestAmar View Post
    Thats true but do other classes have not similar opportunities? Do wulvens, mages, hunters lack any chance of using these kind support abilities and their hero at the same time?
    Wulven removal is limited to cheap allies while fatties can ruin the strat or big scary items that cause them to lose board advantage.
    Mages have burn that can take up most their resources anyway, usually if you can distract a mage into using all their burn on your allies you'll probably win.
    Hunters have weapons only with Gwen having an infinite weapon and Victor with his ability/gambit/bobcat combo. They all have some sort of condition to meet though and for rogues the condition would be exhaustion.
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง
    Justiciar of the Audacious
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    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car." -- Author Unknown
    (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง the unseen phoenix donger is the deadliest (ง ͠° ل͜ °)ง

  9. #9
    Senior Member Delay of Game's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucasBlitz View Post

    Shhhh...don't broadcast that card!!

    Please hurry and delete your comment before some noob sees it and uses it against me!

  10. #10
    Senior Member PriestAmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delay of Game View Post
    Shhhh...don't broadcast that card!!

    Please hurry and delete your comment before some noob sees it and uses it against me!
    It's gonna be more fun with the upcoming changes

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