Preview of Balance Changes for 2.89

[Rivozzz]

Who do you deem to be "professional" players?

That is a very Easy answer...As i deeply study the meta, u will have noticed if u are in my guild but anyway, here is answer with proofs:

1) Preybird, FDL, Veles From ETC: These guys have introduced huge number of decks and concepts wether in this meta or previous meta.. Even people from different guilds made some adjustments on their decks, but they developped many decks from their builds. Rush boris, KP Priest and many other decks...Zaldar shard, elementalis deck and many other countless decks and concepts

2) From A1: we have very nice people, who usually dont speak or post many decks but they are known for their decks from QM which changes meta. I would say sisyphos (WC winner), jacqui and Vyz.. And I think these same people are the one who make decks for A1 guild

3) I preferred to speak of my guild at last, There is remarkable persons: Vince (2nd wC winner), Lightening fury and MAxi. There is many other good deck builder and tournments constant winners, but i just nominate which came to my mind.. Rapheal majare if he returns to game

4)There is other people in other guilds as SameulJ, Silverclaw, and other guildless players as Greymouser

So these above are constant deck crafters and you can see their decks on forums, or they are constant tournamnets winners or they are deck crafters for an entire guild

[Romantic Gunner]

I think Dagger of Fate was changed due to Aramia Rush.
SE needs Hero specific cards. It doesn't make much sense to me that any mage can use Loest's Burden or any warrior utilizing Rothem's Visage.

[Preybird]

My point was - discard themed Zaladar will work fine with or without DOF - (see Shock Conductor and Soulbound Armor). It didn't take being in the PFG to know that DOF was being nerfed. The harbinger change was a little surprising - if anything it makes it more consistent for Undead decks. Devourer's change before was a little surprising since most decks are ally heavy, but because most decks are ally heavy that change shouldn't have really impacted much. I'm just not seeing where these big "killing" changes are coming from. The board control aspect of it hasn't changed.

All these little nerfs over time have slowly destroyed the viabiliy of the whole. Sure the board control hasn't dipped too much, but what has been taken away is the damage potential on the hero. The deck no longer has a real end game.

Brimstone Devourer - Used to hit hero or ally with lowest health. Nerfed to only ally and suddenly the deck loses a lot of punch against solo decks and cannot take advantage of an empty board. It also meant that you were holding this card for longer, waiting for an ally which leads to suboptimal play.

Soulbound Armor - Previously the Defense became attack and Durability became health. This meant that you could tank a couple of hits if you were behind while setting up the game winning swing. Now if you tank hits he swings like a stuffed toy. Also can no longer combo with Devourer for a solid end game swing.

Rampant Krygon - No longer can buff itself for an extra point of damage, in addition will no longer be able to weaken hardened targets like Fortified Wisp and Sandworm which trouble Zal. This affects a lot of heroes however. Also his health of one will now mean a siple Kris can knock him down. Cannot also drop two Krygon and have them buff each other.

Dagger of Fate - Now cannot be used to rush hero down at the end when you inevitably lose board control (and if you have used a lot of Zal you will know he always runs out of steam, due to the high costing of his control abilities).

Discard had to rush the hero because it has no staying power at all, the average health of the allies within being around 3. It's a glass cannon all-or-nothing deck and all these nerfs have taken away it's teeth.

[Ekoz]

Now consider Soulbound Armor. 6cc for a 4/4 with unpreventable haste is strong, particularly in decks that already have a great deal of access to haste and burn. Combine that with the ability to prevent a good amount of damage and it becomes even stronger. So to balance that they added an additional cost - discard a card. Except with reactorary and brimstone, this added cost became an added benefit...

except it did not.

soulbound armour's cost is not a benefit. it's a mechanic. did you not read anything i posted?

the fact that there are cards that do something when discarded does not magically turn a mechanic into a 100% benefit. what happens if you don't have either of those cards in your hand? wow, would you look at that: you can't benefit from it, and your soulbound will quickly lose durability! what about the fact that you need to have those cards IN YOUR HAND to benefit? what happens if you draw two brimstones turns before you draw a soulbound? well they were just sitting there and doing nothing because they suck otherwise!

the mechanic can be used to a benefit if you directly build your deck in one totally tight niche, in such a fashion that you'll always be able to pull a small positive out of it. but at the end of the day, you are packing 4 brimstones for the express purpose of a randomly distributed 12 damage output. you are packing 3-4 reactoraries for semi-efficient bodies. the stars have to align for it to all go right, and you have stuffed yourself into such a tight corner that if anything goes wrong, you lose.

discard is not good or bad. it's how you build your deck that allows you to capitalize on the mechanic in a variety of fashions.

whether or not discard is still good or not is irrelevant. it's about the fact that people who don't want to adapt or deal with the archetype keep professing that discard HAS to be bad. no, it doesn't. the sun isn't happy, rain isn't gloomy, and lightning isn't angry. these things just happen, and it's up to players to take advantage of them or adapt and block them out.

[Gondorian]

For those interested in hearing many many many opinions on the power/cost/benefit/mechanics of discard, here's an old thread on it:

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....scarding-in-SF

[Mightyoak713]

I like the changes to grimjaw personally. I dont understand the one to HoL but ok...

The changes to krgyon will make me actually consider using him as i havent..ever lol. He will be like the "aldon 2 copy tech" card for me with possoble bloodstained though tbh I have not tried a ravager vess with him in it..though i may now .

[Middle Aged Nerd]

All these little nerfs over time have slowly destroyed the viabiliy of the whole. Sure the board control hasn't dipped too much, but what has been taken away is the damage potential on the hero. The deck no longer has a real end game.

Brimstone Devourer - Used to hit hero or ally with lowest health. Nerfed to only ally and suddenly the deck loses a lot of punch against solo decks and cannot take advantage of an empty board. It also meant that you were holding this card for longer, waiting for an ally which leads to suboptimal play.

Soulbound Armor - Previously the Defense became attack and Durability became health. This meant that you could tank a couple of hits if you were behind while setting up the game winning swing. Now if you tank hits he swings like a stuffed toy. Also can no longer combo with Devourer for a solid end game swing.

Rampant Krygon - No longer can buff itself for an extra point of damage, in addition will no longer be able to weaken hardened targets like Fortified Wisp and Sandworm which trouble Zal. This affects a lot of heroes however. Also his health of one will now mean a siple Kris can knock him down. Cannot also drop two Krygon and have them buff each other.

Dagger of Fate - Now cannot be used to rush hero down at the end when you inevitably lose board control (and if you have used a lot of Zal you will know he always runs out of steam, due to the high costing of his control abilities).

Discard had to rush the hero because it has no staying power at all, the average health of the allies within being around 3. It's a glass cannon all-or-nothing deck and all these nerfs have taken away it's teeth.

Ditto. To all this. And pretty much everything he has written in this thread. And the reason zal likes discard look at his only draw engines. Cultust and antimatter. They both rely on discard. Antimatter sucks without discard effects. Great for 3 resources and the loss if a card i get one card. No thanks.

[Alien Fungus]

My god the way some of these guys are carrying on you'd think their whole world had just fallen apart because their favourite decks have just been nerfed. The point of which was to make the game more competitive and challenging and ultimately better for different deck variations. Do we really want to be seeing the same discard and rush decks 12 months from now ? The game must evolve and I dare say the good creative players will create equally challenging combinations that in the future may require future nerfs and buffs and have correspondingly more complaints from players effected. What do you want the Design Team to do, nothing ? .... Only listen to you. Come on guys, let the changes play out before you start whinging. If they don't work out as expected there 's always 2.90 to look forward to.

[jcbow]

My god the way some of these guys are carrying on you'd think their whole world had just fallen apart because their favourite decks have just been nerfed. The point of which was to make the game more competitive and challenging and ultimately better for different deck variations. Do we really want to be seeing the same discard and rush decks 12 months from now ? The game must evolve and I dare say the good creative players will create equally challenging combinations that in the future may require future nerfs and buffs and have correspondingly more complaints from players effected. What do you want the Design Team to do, nothing ? .... Only listen to you. Come on guys, let the changes play out before you start whinging. If they don't work out as expected there 's always 2.90 to look forward to.

Do remember that once the set is done its set in stone. There are no more nerfs and buffs.

[Ganjamus]

Brimstone Devourer - Used to hit hero or ally with lowest health. Nerfed to only ally and suddenly the deck loses a lot of punch against solo decks and cannot take advantage of an empty board. It also meant that you were holding this card for longer, waiting for an ally which leads to suboptimal play.

You could summon Brimstone instead...? It IS an ally afterall. I don't see why you HAVE to treat it like a worse Smite.