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  1. #1
    Senior Member Peithoson's Avatar
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    Amulet of Conjuring is a good thing.

    Yes I know that people hate this card but I would really like to see more class specific draw cards for factions. I don't think it needs much of a nerf as it would be unplayable otherwise.
    Sure it enables rush mages but those have been present in this game since time immemorial. I can also help enable slower mage decks to viable. Basically, Mages and Priests are the only classes I know of without good class specific draw (sans AoC, and Chalice doesn't exactly count since it cycles through the deck rather than acts as hard draw).

    just my two cents.
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  2. #2
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    Why isn't Chalice a draw engine?

    It does give you one card each time you activate it (draw 3, put 2 back).
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Lahiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peithoson View Post
    I would really like to see more class specific draw cards for factions.
    I agree with this, but not fully with the rest of your post.
    AoC favors rush mages, as you can see in qm. I'd like a draw engine that favors control mages.

    Oh and I don't get why you don't consider Chalice a draw engine, it is one of the best in the game because it's very consistent. Perfect for Zhanna playstile.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Romantic Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peithoson View Post
    Basically, Elementals are the only classes I know of without good class specific draw.
    Ftfy

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lahiri's Avatar
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    Antimatter was trash in DP, but it's become actually (very) good with all these new discard mechanics.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Peithoson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romantic Gunner View Post
    Ftfy
    That's IF AoC gets changed. Even so Anti-Matter has improved with all the discard love in this set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahiri View Post
    I agree with this, but not fully with the rest of your post.
    AoC favors rush mages, as you can see in qm. I'd like a draw engine that favors control mages.

    Oh and I don't get why you don't consider Chalice a draw engine, it is one of the best in the game because it's very consistent. Perfect for Zhanna playstile.
    If AoC was such a game changer then why did only 2 mages get high into the WC? Shriek handled it well. QM is not a great litmus test since most decks that people run in there are wrecked by a rush mage.

    I do not consider chalice a draw engine due to the fact that it just strikes me as a card that shuffles cards around more than provides a heavier control deck with draw. As it stands the game system is set up to favor quick decks but better draw will allow for late game decks to have more of a chance.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peithoson View Post
    That's IF AoC gets changed. Even so Anti-Matter has improved with all the discard love in this set.



    If AoC was such a game changer then why did only 2 mages get high into the WC? Shriek handled it well. QM is not a great litmus test since most decks that people run in there are wrecked by a rush mage.

    I do not consider chalice a draw engine due to the fact that it just strikes me as a card that shuffles cards around more than provides a heavier control deck with draw. As it stands the game system is set up to favor quick decks but better draw will allow for late game decks to have more of a chance.
    Mages didn't make it far in WC because everyone teched against mages. Mages were and still are very strong, but they are also fairly predictable, and have their share of bad matchups - like a correctly tech'd banebow. Consider FlyingFerrarri's Victor deck that used Unaxio over Viska...why did he do this? Because although it's not as strong in many matchups, it's much stronger against Loest. Because mages were so strong, priests and slow control decks were nonexistent (not one player even brought a priest deck) and midrange decks of all kinds dominated the tourneys (after beating rush mages). Amusingly, since everyone was teching against them, no one brought rush decks to the finals - a strong priest control deck could have really cleaned up, but no one brought them either since they were afraid of rushes.

    Regarding draw - rush decks depend heavily on draw. One of the main differences between rush and control is that rush has cheap cards, control has mixed cheap utility and expensive cards. So on average control decks play 1-2 cards per turn, while rush decks can play 2-3 cards per turn if they make it into late game and if they have enough draw. So improving draw a lot gives an advantage to rush decks. Imagine a meta with no draw engines - who would have the advantage?

    What may help control decks are resource acceleration and healing/damage prevention. Healing is huge, since it helps to reset mid-game to prepare for the late game. Without heals, control decks always have to worry about losing excessive health in the early game to a rush, as burn cards can easily knock down the rest of the health.

    I also take issue with the point that mages had no good draw before AoC. ToK is a fine draw card, and is at least on-par with other draw engines. Mage rush was a viable strategy before the AoC buff, but just got much stronger after that. It's a simplistic and easy strategy that has a potential to win any matchup given a little luck. On top of that Aramia rush decks have shown that there are other strong draw options for mages as well.

    Priests have plenty of good draw engines as well without Chalice - but chalice is no slouch. Getting to see 3 cards and pick 1 is huge for a control deck, as it's more important in such decks to have the right cards - not just more cards. The only drawback is that the rush is a bit too strong and consistent for such decks to be competitive in certain metas.
    Last edited by bobrossw; 01-07-2015 at 07:20 PM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Lahiri's Avatar
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    +1

    Almost all rush mages play Amulet (even Aramia most of the times), while, for example, Chamthabo's control Nishaven uses Tome of Knowledge.
    Amulet can be good for a control deck, but it has definitely more impact in a rush deck. This is true because of burn spells being available to mages. A rush deck based only on allies wouldn't benefit solo much from it because it is a tempo loss.
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  9. #9
    DP Visionary Preybird's Avatar
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    Amulet does need a nerf of some kind, but I don't think it needs something severe. Going from draw 2 to draw 3 cards pushed it into the top tier of draw engines, you don't want to drop it back down but it's too strong as is.

    Also Antimatter is ok, but my issue with it is that it has now forced Elementals to be one dimensional. You either play discard or you don't play at all. Couple with the ridiculous amount of nerfs to discard effects over the last 6 months and I dont see much promise in them anymore. They need an alternate draw engine that allows other styles of play (they would love a Tainted Oracle style ally, esp with Shadow Knight and/or Infinity Core).
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  10. #10
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preybird View Post
    they would love a Tainted Oracle style ally
    In other words, a playable Stardust Extractor.

    (I had to look up its name on the card list )
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