Shadow Era in 2015

[Kip thorp]

Fair enough BobRoss.

I've been w SE for quite a while now and I equate building online games to building houses, ,,,,if the plumber don't show up, you can't build walls over the sections where plumbing needs to be, it would be working against the whole house project.

But, as a long time player and kickstarter backer, I'm waiting for rewards? ( those aren't rewards they are what I purchased by backing kickstarter) . That creates a problem.

Ex: kip thorp backs kickstarter on X day of Y year.
Some but nowhere near all of the promised "rewards" were delivered
:kip waits:
kip waits some more
kip still waits, and participates in beta trials, and anything else he sees as a way to help this finish
kips still waiting

I have no idea why it's taken this long to finalize the SF cards? I have no clue whe we will see a new beta. I started on SE complaing about not being able to beta because I was on an iPad. ( I understand why now, 2.7 yrs later).
My only issue is if I was promised X product (customized card sleeves...cough cough). I would really like them, that's a big part of why I did back Kyle.
I'm willing to wait for a lot of things, I've learned it takes a lot to run/ develope this game.

But, the masses will wait only so long, then they riot, ( which in a virtual card game does nothing) or they leave.

I don't want them to leave, I want them to find that SE is as a fantastic game as I have.

[Romantic Gunner]

The reason they do that is that the things holding up the release of the current set are not holding back some work on the 4th. For example they're still working on artwork for SF. So while waiting for artwork, should Gondorian just twiddle his thumbs? Would you rather he make the new artwork himself (bad idea)? So he's got time, and can get to work on the early steps of the later projects.

Working on artwork? Are you display intentional obliviousness or are you just plain ignorant? For the record, no card art, yet released, has been made specifically for Shadow Era except maybe the ones made by Preybird. They have simply been buying rights to images that have already been made. Seriously, how hard could it be to search DeviantArt and contact an artist that is interested in selling their work? Not difficult at all, especially when the majority of the art on the site they're using is already for sale...

However, the Shattered Fates Kickstarter clearly states, and I quote, "The Kickstarter will be funding the hiring of new fulltime developers and artists so we can drastically improve the presentation quality of the game." Yet premade artwork is still being released and there has been no word of any 'new' artists (as if one previously existed) being added to the Wulven team...

It's like building a cathedral - it's not all done by one guy you have multiple specialists working on different elements of the project at once: masons building walls while sculptors work on fine details and worshipers come by every once in a while to complain to God about all their problems...

You're comparing Shadow Era to a cathedral? Please, humor me more...

Regarding the idea of 'opening things up to the community' I think the forums are a fine example of this. I don't think open-sourcing the game code would fix any issues, it would probably just lead to shards which would fracture the community and make the game less fun (no one to play against).

I'm sorry you misunderstood. When I mentioned that, I was suggesting that someone affiliated with Wulven should at least let the Shadow Era community know what's going on. Ie: progress.

Anyhow I think it's the artwork that is an issue, and I do believe the devs are open to submissions from the community. If you're interested in contributing artwork, feel free to write the devs and I'm sure they'd be receptive (providing it's good quality).

What? Seriously?
We gave Wulven money to hire artists, yet you're suggesting that we now furnish the artwork as well? Facepalm...

Let's be clear though - complaining about what is missing is not the same as 'helping'. Constructive criticism offers real solutions that can be implemented relatively easily to lead to success. Criticism with general messages like "go faster" or hurtful statements like "sell the company to someone competent" (see another similar thread), don't really help anyone.

I've been suggesting constructive criticism am along.
Do what they promised and progress will be made...

Maybe it's cathartic for some people to take out their frustration online. But this is a company that perhaps is not going as fast as you would like in their development...

Development? What development?...

but is clearly making consistent forward progress.

Absolutely. We've consistently gained 12 card arts every 4 months. Quite the achievement...

If you'd like to speed up that progress then perhaps you could help motivate them

I thought the money was the motivational gesture here...

by positively commenting on the good things they've done.

Congratulations, Wulven, for successfully stealing $80,000 from your supporters...

... As you can see, I'm not so good at being nice to Wulven right about now. I'll leave that up to Leviosablade...

Or maybe you could offer some of your own time towards some productive end.

I participated in funding the Kickstarter. Stop asking me for moar...

Sitting here insulting the company can only serve to demotivate people.

I apologize, but my money was gladly accepted yet no progress has been made. I tend to give liars and thieves a bit of a hard time. That's what I do...

It's made me want to take breaks from the forums for a few days these last few weeks and I don't even work for the company...

My evil plot... Its working...

Also regarding delivering on kickstarter stuff - was there a specified timeline there?

Nope. Thats how they managed to pull a quick one on us. Sneaky bastards...

I know they said summer 2014 was a goal for release but aside from that - did anyone say the rewards would come within a specified time window?

I couldn't care any less about "rewards" at this point. I just want to know what $80,000 has accomplished thus far.

I'm glad they're going the second route.

That makes one of you...

People are acting as if they simply took the money and were making no efforts to deliver on their promises when that clearly isn't the case.

They've done it twice already. A quick google search will unveil a few alarming blogs and posts concerning this very same matter with supporters of Wulven's physical release campaign and Dark Prophecies campaign. Still unresolved, I might add. Three times the charm...

Kickstarter is not the same as e-bay. There are no finished products waiting to ship when you pay for them. Even kickstarter specifically says that they don't guarantee anything.

That's Kickstarter liability clause to protect them from exactly what Wulven has done.

As long as wulven continues to show signs of forward progress, I think you guys need to just relax.

I've seen Wulven display nothing more than delayed progress, but you know what they say opinions are like...

Acknowledge that maybe Wulven is the type of company that creates a good game, but maybe not in the time-frame you'd like.

You say that as if I'm the only one...

If that's a big issue for you then I'm sure there are other games that can accomodate you, or at least tide you over until SF is released. Maybe go check out Assassin's Creed: Unity (http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/11/71...box-one-PS4-PC)

I'll make a note of it...

[YOTENKA]

I hope the best is yet to come for SE.

[Drakkon]

[Peithoson]

Bobross, when a company gives timelines on delivering product (physical boxes) but never really delivers, there is a problem. Yes there was a timeline. I cannot recall specific examples but they said within a few months of the money coming in and made a big deal about the release of cards back in COTC. Should be searchable.

That is why a lot of people are mad, they invested a considerable amount of money into the game and would like returns. Taking longer to develop is not a problem especially for a smaller company. If you search back a couple years back in earlier sets though, the reasons for delay are really pathetic or at least come across that way due to lack of updates.

Telling people who are/were long time players to like it or leave it or move to other games while development takes place is just ridiculous. It's one thing to levy endless complaints against a company for no reason and another to continually feel frustrated with how things are handled. In this case Wulven did promise to deliver certain things that have never been implemented. Total lack of trust now.

Im sure I am not the only one who wants to give Wulven the benefit of the doubt and see the game improve. But that progress can't happen if they don't move to mend the mistakes they have made over the years.

[bobrossw]

So let's assume there's a good reason for the delays and not something more sinister...can we start there? If we assume that there is a legitimate reason (like if they subcontracted with a printing company that's not pulling its weight, but they're stuck in a contract, etc. How many details would it take to appease you?

I guess the tricky thing with kickstarter is it's sort of like charitably donating to a cause that you like and its sort of like preordering a game. I didn't back the kickstarters so I guess I've got nothing to complain about in that regard. I do think it's a cool thing to back projects you like on kickstarter. I also think that if you give large amounts of money - like $5k, well then you should be doing it out of a sincere interest in the larger project, and not out of an expectation to get $5k worth of stuff back. If $5k is a lot of money for you, perhaps you shouldn't be spending it on that sort of thing. If it's not a lot of money for you, well then easy come, easy go I suppose.

I understand that getting some but not all of the things you were promised would be upsetting...I suppose someone thought well we can at least give parts of the things we promised now, so lets do that. Would it have been better to wait so you can get it all at once? Did you get a message with that stuff explaining that they understood that XY and Z hadn't come yet but would be coming at some point in the future?

Also suggesting that $80k is this massive amount of money that warrants everything being done quickly is quite misleading. As you've pointed out, it's less than they've made in the past. It's not enough money to hire 2 professionals full time for a year. As they've pointed out, it mainly covers their printing costs for the physical cards. It's also not much compared to other kickstarter projects. If all they were after was ripping people off on kickstarter, they could have gotten $50k just making potato salad: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...9/potato-salad .

I don't really know what's happened with all of that stuff, but perhaps one thing that could help with future kickstarters is to be more careful with a tiered approach, and total targets rather than so many rewards attached to specific donations. I'm thinking of a game that I am very excited about: Torment 2 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ref=nav_search . If you check that page, you'll notice that the release date was set for Dec. 2014 - but I haven't seen it released, actually it's been pushed back to late 2015 after having been funded (over $4 million) by people in 2013.

Oh and yes the game is much more like a cathedral than a house...sure, many of you may live in it - but I think it's really the devotion that is so striking, whether you love it or hate it, you keep coming to services. Regarding the order of work - if you are a company employing a full-time plumber and a full-time carpenter then you'll want to use both of them as much as possible (since you're paying for them). You'll start plumbing on the next project while you're finishing up the carpentry on the first project. Not all steps of a project need to be or should be completed simultaneously.

Also Gunner - the Assassin's Creed thing was a joke, it's one of those games that critics are saying was released before it was really ready. They're on a strict 1 game per year release cycle, and sometimes that means releasing mediocre plot-lines attached to concepts that are cool in theory but not fully realized.

[Leviosablade]

So let's assume there's a good reason for the delays and not something more sinister...can we start there? If we assume that there is a legitimate reason (like if they subcontracted with a printing company that's not pulling its weight, but they're stuck in a contract, etc. How many details would it take to appease you?

I guess the tricky thing with kickstarter is it's sort of like charitably donating to a cause that you like and its sort of like preordering a game. I didn't back the kickstarters so I guess I've got nothing to complain about in that regard. I do think it's a cool thing to back projects you like on kickstarter. I also think that if you give large amounts of money - like $5k, well then you should be doing it out of a sincere interest in the larger project, and not out of an expectation to get $5k worth of stuff back. If $5k is a lot of money for you, perhaps you shouldn't be spending it on that sort of thing. If it's not a lot of money for you, well then easy come, easy go I suppose.

I understand that getting some but not all of the things you were promised would be upsetting...I suppose someone thought well we can at least give parts of the things we promised now, so lets do that. Would it have been better to wait so you can get it all at once? Did you get a message with that stuff explaining that they understood that XY and Z hadn't come yet but would be coming at some point in the future?

Also suggesting that $80k is this massive amount of money that warrants everything being done quickly is quite misleading. As you've pointed out, it's less than they've made in the past. It's not enough money to hire 2 professionals full time for a year. As they've pointed out, it mainly covers their printing costs for the physical cards. It's also not much compared to other kickstarter projects. If all they were after was ripping people off on kickstarter, they could have gotten $50k just making potato salad: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...9/potato-salad .

I don't really know what's happened with all of that stuff, but perhaps one thing that could help with future kickstarters is to be more careful with a tiered approach, and total targets rather than so many rewards attached to specific donations. I'm thinking of a game that I am very excited about: Torment 2 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ref=nav_search . If you check that page, you'll notice that the release date was set for Dec. 2014 - but I haven't seen it released, actually it's been pushed back to late 2015 after having been funded (over $4 million) by people in 2013.

Oh and yes the game is much more like a cathedral than a house...sure, many of you may live in it - but I think it's really the devotion that is so striking, whether you love it or hate it, you keep coming to services. Regarding the order of work - if you are a company employing a full-time plumber and a full-time carpenter then you'll want to use both of them as much as possible (since you're paying for them). You'll start plumbing on the next project while you're finishing up the carpentry on the first project. Not all steps of a project need to be or should be completed simultaneously.

Also Gunner - the Assassin's Creed thing was a joke, it's one of those games that critics are saying was released before it was really ready. They're on a strict 1 game per year release cycle, and sometimes that means releasing mediocre plot-lines attached to concepts that are cool in theory but not fully realized.

Woot! Bob Ross is right!

[jacqui]

Best potato salad.

[Peithoson]

Best potato salad.

Win

[jonmaciel]

The $80,000 from kickstarter is a drop in the bucket compared to overall cost of an expansion plus the additional projects. People need to stop saying that "kickstarter is funding these" when in reality it helps give a little push.

Most people on this thread probably dont spend much money playing SE. Compare it other online TCGs that have bigger names and SE is super cheap to build up a collection. What's that mean? That means the revenue of SE is going to be much smaller compare to these other games. So if you want more done faster, buy some more shadow crystals or something.