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  1. #31
    Senior Member Romantic Gunner's Avatar
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    A reason for the delays concerning contracts and printing company's? Kyle has already used that excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    It's with a heavy heart today that I must finally admit defeat in the scandal over physical bonuses to people that preordered.

    Although the card sleeves were finally produced thanks to sub-contracting Cartamundi, the playmats, tokens and collector's tins had numerous manufacturing delays through companies in China. Although we paid a deposit and were given start dates, they constantly failed to deliver on those dates and things got pushed back again and again. After finally canceling the orders and attempting to restart the process by contracting through more reputable companies, the product samples we ordered have been stuck in Vietnam customs for almost two months now due to increased import controls. Again, even a ballpark date when the items can be manufactured and delivered is completely unknown.

    The physical world is new and uncertain to us, and we've learned a lot about what went right and what went wrong. The greatest pain is that we couldn't provide updates during this waiting period, as we didn't have any new information to give. It made a lot of people unhappy, and angry that they didn't get what they were promised. Although we've tried to add more and more bonuses, such as the exclusive digital sleeves, that still didn't solve the problem.

    So today I have to finally say that enough is enough. We can no longer put the reputation of our company at the mercy of third party manufacturers. It's for this reason that an exchange has to be made on the promises of playmats, tokens and collector's tins. Instead, you will be shipped the premium Zaladaricon card sleeves and a free Dark Prophecies booster box - a $65 value - when they are produced early next year.

    I can only hope that you all sympathize with our position on this, and accept the exchange that we're forced to make. Thanks for your support and incredible patience!

    TL;DR - we had to cancel the playmats, tokens and collector's tins. But you'll get a free Dark Prophecies booster box instead!

    Note: The people that preordered the Epic Collection and Complete Playsets will still get their limited edition playmats.
    Furthermore, the Shattered Fates Kickstarter clearly states "Please note that this Kickstarter campaign is for the digital version of Shattered Fates only!", so I certainly hope none of the money was used to fund the physical aspect of the game in any way.

    Everyone keeps saying that 80k isn't a lot of money for what was promised. Look, I'm not the one who said if you give me 50k, I'll do this, then raised 80k and have made next to no progress in a year. Wulven did.

    Torment kept their backers informed. That's the difference, so please just stop with all the irrelevant comparisons.

  2. #32
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    Honestly, I'm so tired of seeing this shit every set. ):

    This is why I haven't backed a kickstarter since #1. I'm not saying people shouldn't back it. Just saying this is the reason I don't. I do still buy digital sleeves ETC to support Wulven.

    Basically, if you're unhappy with the timeline given/missed... just support them by purchasing FINISHED product. It makes a huge difference to the motivation of a person when being paid on a job well done rather than being paid and then told what to do.

  3. #33
    Senior Member starval's Avatar
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    One other thing - TOs can sponsor their own prizes for turneys. Its only 15 bucks but with all the turneys that go on, thats revenue that could be going towards SE.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member streetsahead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romantic Gunner View Post
    A reason for the delays concerning contracts and printing company's? Kyle has already used that excuse.



    Furthermore, the Shattered Fates Kickstarter clearly states "Please note that this Kickstarter campaign is for the digital version of Shattered Fates only!", so I certainly hope none of the money was used to fund the physical aspect of the game in any way.

    Everyone keeps saying that 80k isn't a lot of money for what was promised. Look, I'm not the one who said if you give me 50k, I'll do this, then raised 80k and have made next to no progress in a year. Wulven did.

    Torment kept their backers informed. That's the difference, so please just stop with all the irrelevant comparisons.
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  5. #35
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    There seems to be a perception that the Kickstarter put +$80000 into Wulven's bank, without that having any negative impact on other cash flow. Anyone who doesn't take into account the lost income from offering all those packs and SC as part of the deal is an idiot.

    Over the KS period, no one would have been spending on ordinary SC, and folks likely stocked up on packs and SC too. The net result is a slump in usual income, right? Also, it's possible to buy the whole set for gold without even spending any extra beyond all that was given out in previous kickstarters or as prizes in other ways. Net result is that Wulven shot itself in the foot (again!) IMHO. A new set is an R&D investment that really needs to bring in new money. If it can be got without new money or got at a cut price, then how can you expect to not make a loss on it? To make matters worse, a bunch of extra stuff was offered which obviously takes more work to deliver and that's why most isn't here yet.

    I don't have the financial numbers but my guess would be that the KS hurt the business and whilst KS + normal cash flow might have led to everything that was offered, the actual cash flow outside of KS was hit hard and we are seeing impact of that. As long as people are buying SC, Wulven is fine. I think that dried up a bit because no one really needed any more. Other than existing players buying SC, Wulven needs new players buying it. Calling the company a scam doesn't help. A company needs money to run and Wulven has not charged enough for what it has offered IMHO.

    One final thing: I don't know how many people weren't KS backers, but clearly this thread is from perspective of a backer. SE in 2015 for a usual player - the usual source of income for SE - is in great shape. It's delivered a lot for you in 2014. If you have just played and bought SC, then there's no extra promises of anything and you know you are getting value. Be sure to tell your friends!

  6. #36
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    That's what I feel the issue is for SE much like GDC remarked. The game feels like it dead ends everytime there's an expansion I mean I bought the new set with $20 to support the game and enjoy the new cards but even then... that's it. You're just sitting there thinking, well what now...

    Sort of why there's threads supposing SE should have a lot more sleeves and playmats or at least something to spend money on. A gold reset every expansion wouldn't be a bad idea since senior players can just buy 2-3 sets to come since theyve accumulated at least 100k-1M in gold.

    Edit: The problem would be a lack of revenue like was said, would've been a smarter idea to dump the online SE store into the game somehow by buying 24 packs for $25 ingame or however that deal is but since people don't even know the online SE store exists its another shot in the foot. By the way anyone know about that double sided hero card the pack has? That sounds badass.
    Last edited by LucasBlitz; 01-03-2015 at 05:36 PM.
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  7. #37
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucasBlitz View Post
    That's what I feel the issue is for SE much like GDC remarked. The game feels like it dead ends everytime there's an expansion I mean I bought the new set with $20 to support the game and enjoy the new cards but even then... that's it. You're just sitting there thinking, well what now...

    Sort of why there's threads supposing SE should have a lot more sleeves and playmats or at least something to spend money on. A gold reset every expansion wouldn't be a bad idea since senior players can just buy 2-3 sets to come since theyve accumulated at least 100k-1M in gold.
    I wonder if allowing people to buy foils with SC and gold would help dry up all the spare so new sets will actually bring in new money. The game has always been dependent on new players for income, IMHO, when that can't be sustained in a niche market that has spawned so many competitors over the years. Die-hard fans have always spent on the KS for super value, which then creates even more dependence on new players. I'm still waiting for the marketing push that finds all those new players who don't even know about the game. We rely largely on luck or word of mouth for new players to find the game. 3.5 years on from when I found SE, I am still yet to hear from any new player who didn't like the game.

  8. #38
    Senior Member LucasBlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I wonder if allowing people to buy foils with SC and gold would help dry up all the spare so new sets will actually bring in new money. The game has always been dependent on new players for income, IMHO, when that can't be sustained in a niche market that has spawned so many competitors over the years. Die-hard fans have always spent on the KS for super value, which then creates even more dependence on new players. I'm still waiting for the marketing push that finds all those new players who don't even know about the game. We rely largely on luck or word of mouth for new players to find the game. 3.5 years on from when I found SE, I am still yet to hear from any new player who didn't like the game.
    Gold would be a backlash due to people that are penny pinchers would get all the foils basically free but some have complained as to why Pick A Card can't be paid with SC instead of exclusively cash.

    For promoting the game... the community just needs to grow and have more youtubers and twitch streamers popularize the game. While the game itself is great for when you're playing I feel that's the backlash. While people think all the fancy FX is just to wow the people its actually to make the game more appealing.

    In short SE feels like the game you have to actually play to understand and enjoy but it doesn't feel like a new up and coming player would understand what's going on if they visited a stream and in some cases it would look visually dull.
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  9. #39
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    I feel like there should be another way to acquire foils. I have a lot I won't even use because I don't have play sets of them.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Xander Spitfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I wonder if allowing people to buy foils with SC and gold would help dry up all the spare so new sets will actually bring in new money. The game has always been dependent on new players for income, IMHO, when that can't be sustained in a niche market that has spawned so many competitors over the years. Die-hard fans have always spent on the KS for super value, which then creates even more dependence on new players. I'm still waiting for the marketing push that finds all those new players who don't even know about the game. We rely largely on luck or word of mouth for new players to find the game. 3.5 years on from when I found SE, I am still yet to hear from any new player who didn't like the game.
    I agree. When SF is done SE will have the strong fondation to grow but it should then go into small/quick expansion mode to stimulate cash flow and make people forget about all the Wulven Time jokes.
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