Shaman loop still too strong?

[Heidrek Rampant]

I see plenty of use for him. Forget looping, 2cc to get an ally back from the graveyard and add an extra 3/1 to the table into the deal is pretty efficient to me.

Played onto an empty board on t2 he will eat any human 2 cc ally which stifles opponents play options, if you can't play him safely why not just hold him in hand until latter in the game when you need reinforcements? Drop him to get dreadwolf, swing with hasty wolf and then stealth them both.

If you has an ability that cost 2 cc and said: return any wulven ally to your hand and put a 3/1 ally into play do you think it would get play? Consider that wulven rally. Also 2 cc gives you a wulven ally back but only puts the second one on top of your deck stifling your next draw. Shaman is essentially wulven rally but instead of putting a second ally on top of your deck and stifling. Your draw it puts a 3/1 straight into play at no additional cost.

Played early it's a solid threat, played later it's efficient recursion and combined with free stealth to protect it it's a bloody good Package!

[jcbow]

How often do you see Blake or princess outside tala?... I believe that's what you would out shaman in...try playing wolf tribes and win without loop consistently... It may be op but u also think its what makes a wolf tribe playable for ms

[bobrossw]

Haha! Sorry about that. Well even if you can't loop them they're great cannon fodder for WoTF!

yup - an ally that lets you return something from graveyard is a good deal by itself, even if it only gets to do it once. With WoTF in game and the option to stealth and protectors, its not unreasonable that they could stay in play a few turns even without the looping.

With the looping they force all allies to focus on them, so even though they've got only 1hp, they're saving your hero from 2-3 attacks per turn (which could easily be 9+ damage) and then once the stealth starts getting used the board gets flooded and you either clear the board with removal cards, or you get Overwhelmed. They allow Tribal Moon to save up stealth for late game, prevent damage (vs ally based decks) resurrect dreadwolfs, resulting in growing 1/4s with haste and massive amounts of draw through WoTF.

Then they fuel strong Overwhelms and lead waves of attacks protected by stealth. It's a ton of utility and synergy all through one 2cc card.
Honestly, the only play that really bothers me is turn 6+ playing 2-3 each turn. Again, until that point they've helped to tie up the board constantly, but with 3 at once ,you're getting both a very strong early defense and a very strong late offense out of the same card.

[Heidrek Rampant]

Why unplayable? Moonstalker was plenty playable before shaman came on the scene and would still be a top level hero even if shaman had never been created. You might play him a bit more like bloodfang maybe or and use some of the real fatties put there that the wulven tribe has access to but that's just a slightly different play style, it doesn't make him unplayable.

The difference with Blake and princess is that they can't be played with heros that protect them the turn they come into play and are vulnerable, with the expect ion of Tala. Princess gets played in tala decks all the time and she doesn't have infinite recursion ability or even in built card advantage like shaman does. No one else uses her because they can keep her safe and she's fragile thanks to all the shadow instant kills for her like RK, DMT, evil ascendant and contaminated water. Moonstalker can keep his shamans safe for free thanks to his ability.

Even without infinite looping bloodpack shamans would still be a cheap efficient threat in a moonstalker build you'd just need to give some thought to how you played hem instead of mindlessly throwing them out whenever you have an extra one in your hand.

[LucasBlitz]

How often do you see Blake or princess outside tala?... I believe that's what you would out shaman in...try playing wolf tribes and win without loop consistently... It may be op but u also think its what makes a wolf tribe playable for ms

I was actually thinking of that but if you allied MS without shamans you're better of playing Bloodfang or Undead MS in that case. However it would be nice to have a Tribal Moon without the use of loops and an actual standard ally based set up.

[jcbow]

I was actually thinking of that but if you allied MS without shamans you're better of playing Bloodfang or Undead MS in that case. However it would be nice to have a Tribal Moon without the use of loops and an actual standard ally based set up.

That's why I ask people to consider the effects of removing the loop. If the first thought is go to another hero then maybe it requires more thought before changing.

[FirstinLastout]

I think it would hurt MS to the point of no play no action. Sick a fork in him he is done.

[Heidrek Rampant]

Are u saying u can't make a competitive MS deck without this card? You can't be serious.

[sam8899]

I play a very very VERY good tribe wulven deck. And let me be the first to say that if you don't know how to play the deck right he's just a small recycling guy thats useless. Plus there's plenty of ways to beat him, baduruu, Serena, garth, mages, Zaladar, ravengers ect. All decks have sweet spots obviously, like any deck can draw the nuts and make a player rage quit on T2 or 3 because there's no possible comeback.

But it all comes back to consistency, and personally unless you know how to play him and the deck there isn't enough to say that he makes the deck op




Sam out

[LucasBlitz]

I play a very very VERY good tribe wulven deck. And let me be the first to say that if you don't know how to play the deck right he's just a small recycling guy thats useless. Plus there's plenty of ways to beat him, baduruu, Serena, garth, mages, Zaladar, ravengers ect. All decks have sweet spots obviously, like any deck can draw the nuts and make a player rage quit on T2 or 3 because there's no possible comeback.

But it all comes back to consistency, and personally unless you know how to play him and the deck there isn't enough to say that he makes the deck op




Sam out

Refer to posts above. He's just a minor threat that you spend abilities and effort to remove so you can then mill off their deck and play much stronger allies. All your points have been considered in the posts above buddy.