Shaman loop still too strong?

**Mukuzin** · 10-22-2014, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rivozzz

So dev team already nearly destroyed or massively nerfed all ms builds:
1- undead ms
2-ravager ms
3- old style ms with few new allies from SF
4- tiger wulv version (maskee)

And made only available version is Wulven ms tribe only.. And now you wanna make them Nerf it??

Why just ask them to ban Moonstalker

if some feel he is too powerful for SE .lloool

People complaining about shaman ms, tell us which hero you play and will tell you how to play aganist him And give you some help

Yeah shaman is good, but he is mostly the main and only buff ms got or left without nerf..others new tools is good, but not that amazing .

Playing aganist ms requires stratgey and planning, not a direct straightforward game.. He is beatable but requires a skilled person to play him or to beat him..
He is not like other heroes where allies keeps killing each other mindlessly till one wins..lol

Do you seriously believe that undead ms is destroyed?

**Karniv04** · 10-22-2014, 01:12 PM

Apparently alot of people think so. The endless loop of this thread justifies this.

**BetrayalFender** · 10-22-2014, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by LucasBlitz

^ This. Just... This.
If going second and your opponent drops a t3 ally then bloodpack is obviously out of the picture, that's the only situation I'll actually sac bloodpack since t2 I used for Blood Moon

:P Or if you're facing Victor because Victor is an annoyance...

If you go first and drop blood moon over Shaman, then you aren't playing your wulven right, and have probably lost the game right then and there.

I can't believe that 5 pages of this is literally Heidrek bitching about how people throwing allies like a crazy cat lady at him makes him think that this is card OP because its in this one deck i hate, so lets change it!

You guys are absolutely ludicrous. Yes, there will be decks that are too fast for the controlling way you play. Auto-Loss. it happens. Yes, it's annoying as shit to have someone come back every turn, but those guys can't do anything if they only drop a shaman with no added draw. Sure, they can stealth, but if you know you're playing MS tribe, then you should be able to win with tech. If you can't then i guess this deck will beat you every time. Shaman is not op, its the conditions that it is being played in that make it seem close to that.(constant drawing if opponent sets up WoTF, always hits the board, constant heat magnet) There are decks that grind you into a certain spot to beat you with. I watched someone counter it with priests by hitting a Mournblade

, eating damage and then going crazy. MS player couldn't deal.

This is not an OP card,. Get over it and figure out how to beat/play around it. If it means that you're so worried about seeing this deck in QM, then change your deck and adapt. Maybe you'll find cards that can serve a dual purpose and stop your opponent.

**Rivozzz** · 10-22-2014, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mukuzin

Do you seriously believe that undead ms is destroyed?

Not destoyed but seriously nerfed..you will even find most of people used to play it already shifted to Wulven ms to get advantage of powerful shaman loop and DFA. And people playing undead ms mainly stuck waiting for update..

I didn't mean it is destroyed, but most people have already shifted to the more powerful build of wulven

**Xander Spitfire** · 10-22-2014, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Heidrek Rampant

I'm sorry? Many examples of how to effectively deal with loops?

If you're going to call spirit warden one of those then we are going to have to disagree. Hell you can just run your shamans into the warden to kill him then bring them back not to mention DFA, NYM etc etc. and snare trap? As soon as you see that you're playing a human hunter you can bet they'll be using this. If you want to protect your loop, and there is a 2cc trap on the table(yes you have to watch how much they spend on thier traps) bait it out with another ally like dread wolf. They only have 4 in the deck and not even Logan

can recur them due to self exiling.

Even with all this "tech" I'd be surprised if hunters won much against shaman loop decks with the possible exception of gwen who can keep grid lees double around thanks to her ability but even then some counter tech like leyline nexus or acid jets could even things out.

Bottom line is that MS can adjust to compensate for the common counters that are run and not lose cohesion whereas your opponent has to add cards that dilute the effectiveness of their strategy to even have a realistic chance.

We could go back and forth on this for days, but fundamentally do you not think that a 3/1 for 2 that can bring itself back from the dead indefinitely is a bit too strong? Or are you just worried that this one particular deck build won't be as good anymore?

I understand what you are saying but your reasoning is flawed. The MS players faces the same dilemma as you. What should he do vs Spirit Warden

or Death Collector

? How about Snare Trap

? Or all the cards that counters stealh? Or all those mages burn? He needs at least 2 Shamans to start the looping, what should he do when he doesn't get it untill the late part?

When you start teching agains't hard counters you are losing effeciency. To the point when you have to decide if its worth it or to move on to another hero/deck/playstyle. Like FDL said, most if this is dictated by the metagame.

When MS is around, I have 1 copy of No Where to Hide in my deck. I've you ever seen MS with this card on? Its quite funny. Sure he can remove it but for what I have seen he doesn't have anything to remove because guess what, few players are using it. So by remaining stuborn and refusing to adapt our game we basicaly play into his.

Like I said I understand the feeling you have here. I think many of use have been there too. I know I have. But getting over this is an important part of becoming a better player. I'm sure you will figure it out one day. Good luck.

**LucasBlitz** · 10-22-2014, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by BetrayalFender

If you go first and drop blood moon over Shaman, then you aren't playing your wulven right, and have probably lost the game right then and there.

I can't believe that 5 pages of this is literally Heidrek bitching about how people throwing allies like a crazy cat lady at him makes him think that this is card OP because its in this one deck i hate, so lets change it!

You guys are absolutely ludicrous. Yes, there will be decks that are too fast for the controlling way you play. Auto-Loss. it happens. Yes, it's annoying as shit to have someone come back every turn, but those guys can't do anything if they only drop a shaman with no added draw. Sure, they can stealth, but if you know you're playing MS tribe, then you should be able to win with tech. If you can't then i guess this deck will beat you every time. Shaman is not op, its the conditions that it is being played in that make it seem close to that.(constant drawing if opponent sets up WoTF, always hits the board, constant heat magnet) There are decks that grind you into a certain spot to beat you with. I watched someone counter it with priests by hitting a Mournblade

, eating damage and then going crazy. MS player couldn't deal.

This is not an OP card,. Get over it and figure out how to beat/play around it. If it means that you're so worried about seeing this deck in QM, then change your deck and adapt. Maybe you'll find cards that can serve a dual purpose and stop your opponent.

It was meant during matchups like Victor or Undead where I didn't have a bloodpack yet and instead had to rely on draw. I mean really, even if I had bloodpack t2 its just free gambits to victor and free feed for DC.