Krygon is too rampant

[Secruoser]

None of the arguments addressed my comparison of Krygon with other haste allies. 2 atk for him is just too good. Fine, let him have 2 atk, but raise the cost to 4, and make him 2/3. Or remove the ability to ping enemies. Choose one.

[jcbow]

Why does he have to be the same as the other hasters? He is fine leave him alone.

[trevorJacobs]

None of the arguments addressed my comparison of Krygon with other haste allies. 2 atk for him is just too good. Fine, let him have 2 atk, but raise the cost to 4, and make him 2/3. Or remove the ability to ping enemies. Choose one.

I don't agree with the method of your argument. You say that RK has more hasted damage than other allies for its cost; this is (mostly) true, but so what? That doesn't automatically make it OP:
- Perhaps the other hasters are UP?
- Are Bloodpack Shaman and Blake OP because they have the most attk per CC?*
- What about rapacious vermin, with the highest HP per CC?
- Or Master Trapsetter and ... Fire Snake (!) which have the highest combined attk+hp per CC?

Your method also ignores the other cards available for each hero - some effects are more costly or cheaper in certain factions / classes (e.g. direct damage is cheaper for mage; healing is cheaper for priest). Offensively good, defensively weak, indivually good, low-synergy creatures are more common in Shadow, whereas Humans have better defense, combos, support etc (in the most general of terms).

* i think Bloodpack Shaman *is* OP, but not for this reason. But that's another discussion

[Pandevmonium]

If Krygon stays as it is now I don't see so many reasons to use DMT anymore. Zaladar and Banebow kill many more things with Krygon than they did with DMT, which is more useful than RK mainly against Brax Soldier, Snare Trap and stealth.

[trevorJacobs]

If Krygon stays as it is now I don't see so many reasons to use DMT anymore. Zaladar and Banebow kill many more things with Krygon than they did with DMT, which is more useful than RK mainly against Brax Soldier, Snare Trap and stealth.

DMT is good for the reasons you say, but also its ping damage only costs 3 and it has more health. Most importantly though it's main strength is it's not RK - i.e. you can have 4x RK AND some DMT. I don't think it's either-or, but both-and (for some decks). DMT was one of the strongest 3CC drops before SF, so no surprise that it stays around now

[Lahiri]

I don't agree with the method of your argument. You say that RK has more hasted damage than other allies for its cost; this is (mostly) true, but so what? That doesn't automatically make it OP:
- Perhaps the other hasters are UP?
- Are Bloodpack Shaman and Blake OP because they have the most attk per CC?*
- What about rapacious vermin, with the highest HP per CC?
- Or Master Trapsetter and ... Fire Snake (!) which have the highest combined attk+hp per CC?

Are you serious?
We're taking about haste.
Your post with stat comparison with non-hasted allies makes no sense.
In SE all allies have what in MTC is called first strike and can choose who to attack. That's why an hasted ally has to have low attack.
Its damage is almost unpreventable unless you have Brax Soldier which isn't available to everybody and costs 5) so you can't play around it.
It's like a burn spell that stays in play and you need to waste another card/attack to kill it. It's an undeniable advantage.
I don't care if it is OP, it changes the meta in worse.

[trevorJacobs]

Are you serious?

Yes

Your post with stat comparison with non-hasted allies makes no sense.

Incorrect: I was not comparing RK to non-haste allies. Secruoser suggested that RK is OP *because it has better stats than other haste allies at the same cost*. I was pointing out that there are other cards that have superior stats per CC, but are not OP. Therefore, good stats per CC is not *in itself* enough to declare something OP.

In SE all allies have what in MTC is called first strike and can choose who to attack. That's why an hasted ally has to have low attack.
Its damage is almost unpreventable unless you have Brax Soldier which isn't available to everybody and costs 5) so you can't play around it.
It's like a burn spell that stays in play and you need to waste another card/attack to kill it. It's an undeniable advantage.

This is all true - but, again, not a compelling case for a nerf. Plenty of cards have "unpreventable" damage; plenty of cards give an "undeniable advantage". That's what makes it a game

I don't care if it is OP, it changes the meta in worse.

One question: in what way?

[bobrossw]

Regarding the meta: I'm ranked around 300 (a bit below now-been testing) and I honestly see RK in maybe 1/4 games vs shadow. It's clearly not OP'd enough to dominate the meta. There are plenty of situations where people choose to play Karash and DMT vs. me (playing Garth/Serena/Victor) as Majiya or Gravebone. Moonstalker is either undead or pure wulven, Bloodfang never uses it, Darkclaw might use it in a haste deck, Banebow uses RK in maybe 1/2 of decks (because they also like undead). Baduruu occasionally uses RK, but seems to prefer DMT and IG for staying power. Shadow warriors seem to prefer Yari or Ravagers and leave RK behind entirely. Zaladar can use RK well, but not all Zal decks include it. I really don't know any shadow heroes where RK is a 4x auto-include anymore.

I was talking to another rogue player about the meta recently and he pointed out that the meta seems to have adjusted to Serena so that she's not nearly as powerful as she was a few weeks ago, one of the ways they've done this is by not overusing RK. Serena is very capable of handling Krygon, and actually forces you to mill yourself if you use it.

So anyhow if you're really having trouble with this card, maybe you could post your deck and we can all workshop it a bit. I'm sure there are ways around it. I never play shadow and I think some shadow cards and a handful of other cards that I don't use might be overpowered, but RK is not among them. I really think it's fine where it is, and really is the sweet spot for 3cc allies: occasionally useful in a deck, occasionally wasteful, sometimes gamechanging, sometimes resource bait.

[trevorJacobs]

Regarding the meta: I'm ranked around 300 (a bit below now-been testing) and I honestly see RK in maybe 1/4 games vs shadow. It's clearly not OP'd enough to dominate the meta. There are plenty of situations where people choose to play Karash and DMT vs. me (playing Garth/Serena/Victor) as Majiya or Gravebone. Moonstalker is either undead or pure wulven, Bloodfang never uses it, Darkclaw might use it in a haste deck, Banebow uses RK in maybe 1/2 of decks (because they also like undead). Baduruu occasionally uses RK, but seems to prefer DMT and IG for staying power. Shadow warriors seem to prefer Yari or Ravagers and leave RK behind entirely. Zaladar can use RK well, but not all Zal decks include it. I really don't know any shadow heroes where RK is a 4x auto-include anymore.

I was talking to another rogue player about the meta recently and he pointed out that the meta seems to have adjusted to Serena so that she's not nearly as powerful as she was a few weeks ago, one of the ways they've done this is by not overusing RK. Serena is very capable of handling Krygon, and actually forces you to mill yourself if you use it.

So anyhow if you're really having trouble with this card, maybe you could post your deck and we can all workshop it a bit. I'm sure there are ways around it. I never play shadow and I think some shadow cards and a handful of other cards that I don't use might be overpowered, but RK is not among them. I really think it's fine where it is, and really is the sweet spot for 3cc allies: occasionally useful in a deck, occasionally wasteful, sometimes gamechanging, sometimes resource bait.

Really nicely put - i agree with everything.

Nothing more to be said on this: propose we close the thread

[FirstinLastout]

Regarding the meta: I'm ranked around 300 (a bit below now-been testing) and I honestly see RK in maybe 1/4 games vs shadow. It's clearly not OP'd enough to dominate the meta. There are plenty of situations where people choose to play Karash and DMT vs. me (playing Garth/Serena/Victor) as Majiya or Gravebone. Moonstalker is either undead or pure wulven, Bloodfang never uses it, Darkclaw might use it in a haste deck, Banebow uses RK in maybe 1/2 of decks (because they also like undead). Baduruu occasionally uses RK, but seems to prefer DMT and IG for staying power. Shadow warriors seem to prefer Yari or Ravagers and leave RK behind entirely. Zaladar can use RK well, but not all Zal decks include it. I really don't know any shadow heroes where RK is a 4x auto-include anymore.

I was talking to another rogue player about the meta recently and he pointed out that the meta seems to have adjusted to Serena so that she's not nearly as powerful as she was a few weeks ago, one of the ways they've done this is by not overusing RK. Serena is very capable of handling Krygon, and actually forces you to mill yourself if you use it.

So anyhow if you're really having trouble with this card, maybe you could post your deck and we can all workshop it a bit. I'm sure there are ways around it. I never play shadow and I think some shadow cards and a handful of other cards that I don't use might be overpowered, but RK is not among them. I really think it's fine where it is, and really is the sweet spot for 3cc allies: occasionally useful in a deck, occasionally wasteful, sometimes gamechanging, sometimes resource bait.

#Bob crush! Bob dominate! Bob smash!

I think we all agree the Bob on the forum is so good he needs to be nerfed.