Serena Profile up at shadowera.net

[segalion]

Well guys, sorry to tell you but it seems good contacts Garth will not work consistently

[Cosmic Giggle]

I just barely mentioned that a couple of hours ago. I think it would be fair to give it a bit more testing. Could you eloborate what problems you ran into and possibly share your build?

[JeanRogue]

I just barely mentioned that a couple of hours ago. I think it would be fair to give it a bit more testing. Could you eloborate what problems you ran into and possibly share your build?

Hey Cosmic Giggle. i have been reading the convo on this thread all day, and i got a few ideas out of it. i've watched a few of your games here and there. Im also a garth player mainly. im not as good as you but im okay (rank between 215 - 229[highest reached lol]).

Ive learned alot from bobrossw, hes the one who told me to watch your games. but i tried a different approach in a few games, it didnt really turn out to well lol but i got a good game in. maybe you can watch it. Im pretty sure you can make it work more then i can lol it worked good in this particular game, so maybe there is some potential to this idea. if it works correctly. let me know what you think of the game and maybe one of these days i will post my main garth deck that has gotten me to reach the 220s. it has a few tweakssince i got some tips from bobrossw but same concept overall

IGN: The hundred
Game was vs. Alzeer

would love your feedback

[segalion]

I just barely mentioned that a couple of hours ago. I think it would be fair to give it a bit more testing. Could you eloborate what problems you ran into and possibly share your build?

It's non of a specific build but the problems to current builds
As we all know IGG is a doubled edged sword. It's great draw engine but it costs so much tempo to play it in t4. Due to this playing good contacts in order to really matter will require setting up early causing another tempo loss which in current somewhat fast meta is disastrous
Second problem is rouge allies. Most of them are squashy and need support from non rouge to survive. This problem was mitigated a bit in SF with smuggler and trader but both of them need a use of cheap expandable a items. Still at the moment most of the good items for rouges are non cheap nor expandable so both allies are somewhat problematic

[bobrossw]

It's non of a specific build but the problems to current builds
As we all know IGG is a doubled edged sword. It's great draw engine but it costs so much tempo to play it in t4. Due to this playing good contacts in order to really matter will require setting up early causing another tempo loss which in current somewhat fast meta is disastrous
Second problem is rouge allies. Most of them are squashy and need support from non rouge to survive. This problem was mitigated a bit in SF with smuggler and trader but both of them need a use of cheap expandable a items. Still at the moment most of the good items for rouges are non cheap nor expandable so both allies are somewhat problematic

Yeah - the solution I was trying to work out was to use Confluence of Fate for draw, so less tempo concerns, and an added benefit from good contacts. So obviously you'd want lots of attachments and cantrips and Zailen Crusaders...when I tried it, it was a mess, but I gave up quick. The cool thing in that scenario is the cantrip attachments yield 2 cards with Confluence of fate. with cheap smugglers and solid draw, I can imagine getting a few out, and then things like Last Harvest work almost like feedback...that could potentially combo well with overwhelm as well. Basically there could be a rogue alternative to elemental weenie rush.

[Cosmic Giggle]

@JeanRogue Thanks for the kind words. They really made my day. But to be completely honest, Bob's the man. He comes up with some really unique deck ideas. I just take them and put my own spin on them. Your rating is probably better than mine right now. I should be taking advice from you! From the games of yours I've watched, your deck seems to be working pretty well. But if I had to make a critique I would say that you may be trying to fit too many ideas into one deck. I saw Lyra so I was expecting hand destruction, but I never saw a Cutlass. And then I saw Vozitian Orders, but nothing really comboed with it. I love the Oliver Fagin BTW. He seems to be working out well for you. And then you have two items that are activated with Shadow Energy. I'm not a fan of Aldmor's Conduit because your opponent can use it as well. I don't ever want to help out my oppponent. I'd try looking for a better drawing source.

One of the most important things is to know what to expect from your opponent. However your rating affects the type of decks you will be facing. In the lower to mid ratings players are much more experimental so you don't always know what you're going to play against. With top tier players you'll usually have a pretty good idea what to expect. One of the keys to getting a high rating is to play a lot during the beginning of each month after everyone's rating is reset. You could easily break 300 on the first day, the hard part is staying there. The further into the month you get, the longer it takes to climb the ranks. And keep in mind your deck is going to be constantly evolving as your rating changes and trends take over. Trends spread like wildfire in this game. My best advice is to keep up with whatever is trending and make note of whatever problems you consistently run into and then adapt. Also try to find more focus for your deck. What do you want it to do and how do you want to win? And then at the beginning of next month try to play as much as you can for at least the first 3 or 4 days. I'm confident you could easily break 300.

@segalion That's unfortunate to hear. You're a solid player so I respect your opinion. I was hoping we could at least get a deck idea going so that we could all brainstorm and maybe bounce some ideas off of each other.

@Bob Wow, I never even noticed that about Confluence of Fate. That could really make things interesting. Like I said before, I'm getting tired of IGG. This could easily replace it.

[segalion]

Does smuggler or trader ability works with cant rips? Not sure on that.
Anyway Serena surely will not work with such build so only Garth or lance
Still the problem with concept do weenie rush is that anyone can deal with it. Mages, zal, priests, warriors with CB, all hunters with their bows, Etc'
So you are just left with early rush and no switch to burn and only one that might make it work is Lance and surly it will not be with only rouge allies
This is the real problem IGG created. Since he is so good, no other good draw engine for rouge was introduced. But since he is the only relable engine most build have to be based on him

[bobrossw]

Does smuggler or trader ability works with cant rips? Not sure on that.
Anyway Serena surely will not work with such build so only Garth or lance
Still the problem with concept do weenie rush is that anyone can deal with it. Mages, zal, priests, warriors with CB, all hunters with their bows, Etc'
So you are just left with early rush and no switch to burn and only one that might make it work is Lance and surly it will not be with only rouge allies
This is the real problem IGG created. Since he is so good, no other good draw engine for rouge was introduced. But since he is the only relable engine most build have to be based on him

yup...I think I came to a similar conclusion about the deck concept. It's very gimmicky and even if it does work, it's so vulnerable to a good board wipe.

I think you're right about IGG, everything has to be balanced with IGG in mind, which makes it tough to have good alternatives. Have you tried Repaid in full? Someone used 2 in a row on me once, which seemed cool, but it's awfully expensive and a tempo drain.

[bobrossw]

@JeanRogue Thanks for the kind words. They really made my day. But to be completely honest, Bob's the man. He comes up with some really unique deck ideas. I just take them and put my own spin on them. Your rating is probably better than mine right now. I should be taking advice from you! From the games of yours I've watched, your deck seems to be working pretty well. But if I had to make a critique I would say that you may be trying to fit too many ideas into one deck. I saw Lyra so I was expecting hand destruction, but I never saw a Cutlass. And then I saw Vozitian Orders, but nothing really comboed with it. I love the Oliver Fagin BTW. He seems to be working out well for you. And then you have two items that are activated with Shadow Energy. I'm not a fan of Aldmor's Conduit because your opponent can use it as well. I don't ever want to help out my oppponent. I'd try looking for a better drawing source.

I think he meant to combo Aldmor Conduit with Lyra: I've thought of that before too...the problem of course is that Lyra dies so darn quick. The only use I can really think of for Lyra is as a burn magnet. No one lets her survive past 1 turn if they can possibly help it. So you really can't pin any hopes on her. Burn magnets are not bad though, but I think Night Owl does the job better for cheaper.

[segalion]

yup...I think I came to a similar conclusion about the deck concept. It's very gimmicky and even if it does work, it's so vulnerable to a good board wipe.

I think you're right about IGG, everything has to be balanced with IGG in mind, which makes it tough to have good alternatives. Have you tried Repaid in full? Someone used 2 in a row on me once, which seemed cool, but it's awfully expensive and a tempo drain.

Rapid is a good example for my point that Rouge pool in SF has cuased them to fall behind compared to other classes
This is a card that just gives you more of the same thing. You need to kill an ally to use him. Therefore he is the same as IGG just less better. Why is he less better? becuase he does not mitigate the problems that IGG creates. He cannot be used mostly before T4 (becuase it requires you opponent to have ally on board + you shoudl kill him + 2 more resources to cast it)and once it can be used you still have to kill an ally so it's just like IGG and does not present any other new play style. For this IGG is better becuase it gives you constant draw even when destroying items
Now if rouges has something like Evil ascendent or more poisen items (yes Concotions, i know) then it might be usefull since the ally dies by himself, but there are very few things that rogues have to mitigate this issue