Derkan returned to hand after Tidal Wave

[huynguyenquang]

The problem is he is not the only ally. Check Bitaddict vs Huy Nguyen Quang.

[jacelkos]

Was he the rightmost ally?
If this is the case, using Standard Resolution Order (SRO), he is the only ally left when killed and is therefore returned to your hand.

[Heimdall]

For me it also makes no sense that Der'kan gets back to the hand in such a case.

If Der'kan has the condition to be the only ally you control to get the effect working, and if there is another ally alongside Der'kan, then an effect like "All allies are killed" should kill both of them at the same time and not somehow applying Derkan's condition of being the only ally...

[oggtheman]

No, its SRO a rule of this game. Allies played first are killed first

[huynguyenquang]

It makes no sense to me why Derkan should be returned to hand. The wording clearly says: "while he is the only ally you control."
I get why jacelkos would refer to SRO. But to me this just doesn't make sense at all.
If I remember correctly: Earthen Protector's ability doesn't trigger after TW. Why should Derkan's?

[oggtheman]

It makes no sense to me why Derkan should be returned to hand. The wording clearly says: "while he is the only ally you control."
I get why jacelkos would refer to SRO. But to me this just doesn't make sense at all.
If I remember correctly: Earthen Protector's ability doesn't trigger after TW. Why should Derkan's?

Eas wouldve if it is furthest right if I understand correctly, but then the ally it creates will be killed as well

[BP Holy Punisher]

As I understand the explanations given by DT, when more than one allies are killed due to board wipes (e.g. tidal wave, supernova, etc) what happens is that ALL allies die at the same time (each killed ally has a dead flag on). Then, the on death effects are triggered and these are the ones that follow the SRO. One by one the killed allies are being checked and go to the graveyard (normally). So, if Derkan was the right most ally, its on death ability will trigger and resolve (as long as none other ally has survived before) and it will return to your hand. If there was another ally on its right, when its ability is being checked, it will see another ally on "board" so it will result in its death.

The difference between Derkan and Earthern Protector is that since both EP and all other allies are killed at the same time, EP's ability can't be triggered since he is already dead!

Hope that makes sense and can help you understand this rule

PS: I agree that Derkan's case doesn't feel natural to me as well, but since this is a rule of the game, it should be accepted by the community imo and learn how to play against/for it.

[Ness]

Unless they changed the rules recently, this is a bug,

Allies are killed simultaneously.
On-death effects resolve according to SRO.
Allies are sent to the graveyard in the order they were played.

Derkan (irrespective of his board position) should not be returned if he is not alone on the board when the game checks for his on-death ability.

[pjoe0211]

GDC changed the rules a little bit ago and it changes how derkan and cryptspawn work

edit: it is a little more complicated than this, but pretty much the allies are killed one at a time left to right but if lethal damage was ever dealt the ally will die

[huynguyenquang]

@pjoe: so what you mean is lethal damage is dealt at the same time and Derkan's on death ability should not kickin?