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  1. #31
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivozzz View Post
    Another suggestion if you carry dawn raid, you will destroy his draw engine and his GR

    But if it is powerful and I admit it is, some kind of nerf is not a problem..but I afraid this will destroy the tribe...
    GR isn't an item.

  2. #32
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivozzz View Post
    I don't think much nerf required..

    I mean

    Warrior disable or kill by markshman and CP
    Rogues kill by assiassan
    Priests kill by tidal wave
    Wulven kill by NYM,DfA

    Non is damage dependent

    Those who suffer is BB, zaldaar and mage

    Mages can use: CF, TC

    Or just carry sheriks
    It's not just them - rogues also kill via allies and weapons - since we have no direct damage - ally damage is already greatly mitigated in moonstalker decks by frequent stealth. So when stealth is not being used, at least my allies could be doing some damage, but grave resistance reduces that. I only get 4 assassinations in a deck and some undead allies don't even die to Assassination (just return to hand). On top of that, most human allies have only 2 or 3 attack, so reducing that by 1 is huge. So that combination of reduced damage frequent stealth and bouncing allies means that for any kind of consistency, rogue decks would have to build specifically to beat undead moonstalker (i.e. 4 retreats, 4 garth's concoctions, 4 assassinations). That kind of deck is unworkable vs anyone else. You could repeat the same argument for hunters and warriors.

    Come to think of it, my only issue with the card is that moonstalker combo. I probably wouldn't have any issues with it if it were a hunter or mage only card.

  3. #33
    Senior Member gnodab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobrossw View Post
    It's not just them - rogues also kill via allies and weapons - since we have no direct damage - ally damage is already greatly mitigated in moonstalker decks by frequent stealth. So when stealth is not being used, at least my allies could be doing some damage, but grave resistance reduces that. I only get 4 assassinations in a deck and some undead allies don't even die to Assassination (just return to hand). On top of that, most human allies have only 2 or 3 attack, so reducing that by 1 is huge. So that combination of reduced damage frequent stealth and bouncing allies means that for any kind of consistency, rogue decks would have to build specifically to beat undead moonstalker (i.e. 4 retreats, 4 garth's concoctions, 4 assassinations). That kind of deck is unworkable vs anyone else. You could repeat the same argument for hunters and warriors.

    Come to think of it, my only issue with the card is that moonstalker combo. I probably wouldn't have any issues with it if it were a hunter or mage only card.
    I also think that moonstalker is the problem (as per usual). I already suggested simply taking the card away from him in the other thread:
    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....143#post517143

    Dunno why we have the same thread twice, maybe someone could merge them together?

  4. #34
    Senior Member streetsahead's Avatar
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    A) i didn't see the other thread it was buried lol

    B) the other one is challenging the validity of 0cc cards more than is gr. op?
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  5. #35
    Senior Member gnodab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetsahead View Post
    A) i didn't see the other thread it was buried lol

    B) the other one is challenging the validity of 0cc cards more than is gr. op?
    no problem, i didn't mean to criticize you.
    i just wanted to make sure that we don't have to type everything twice.
    if someone can join the threads, that would be nice. if not, we can just continue here, since i don't think anybody is really against 0cc on principle.

  6. #36
    DP Visionary Preybird's Avatar
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    I feel GR gives insane value for 0cc as compared to the other 0cc card in the set, Lythian Shackles. That alone makes me wonder about it.

    I actually feel it's more powerful in Banebow. It plus Harbinger on T2, even going second will almost ALWAYS give you the breathing room to cast Tombstone and allow you to control the board regardless. It really reduces tempo loss in early game. In MS is does mean you can fire your stealth later as your allies are more survivable.

    In short, I think it could do with a duration reduction. I don't want to raise the cost because it is an interesting (if annoying) card.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member bobwei's Avatar
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    GR + MS = allies are either protected by stealth or GR, making it tough to deal with
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Jeremy Ryan's Avatar
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    Duration 2.9

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  9. #39
    DP Visionary 4Ak's Avatar
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    ...how about making its durability wear off on your opponents turn like its on Rain Delay so that u cannot chain several of them?
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Rivozzz's Avatar
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    Whether you consider nerfing this card or not consider this ....

    What you are doing is Meta shifting...GR has shifted much the meta..Which made weapon based heroes as amber or others, and Mage burn decks at a lower tier.. It also Increased the Tier of Banebow and MS

    Nerfing this card is not a simple decision..You have to keep in mind that it is one of the most important SF cards.. It will Make Mage and weapon heroes go back slightly hier tier and will weaken both MS and Banebow , which are both Tier 1 heroes now
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