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  1. #1
    Senior Member fyrfytr998's Avatar
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    fyrfytr998's views on digital vs physical

    Quote Originally Posted by gnodab View Post
    Death Form Above and Wulven Rally seem ok.
    And while Oliver Fagin looks pretty generic, it is still waaay better than the horrible original.

    Good Job on the mock ups! And it didn't take you 9 months of Wulven Time
    I know I've been giving Wulven the business about the art issue, but in all fairness, it's easy to search out pictures and slap them on a template. Legally acquiring the art without violating copyright laws is a whole other ball of wax, and actually does take time. It also doesn't help when you use up the budget to run off physical cards. Yes. I went there.
    I'm old, experienced, and usually right. So eyes open, mouth shut, and you might learn a thing or two.

  2. #2
    Senior Member tafkad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrfytr998 View Post
    I know I've been giving Wulven the business about the art issue, but in all fairness, it's easy to search out pictures and slap them on a template. Legally acquiring the art without violating copyright laws is a whole other ball of wax, and actually does take time. It also doesn't help when you use up the budget to run off physical cards. Yes. I went there.
    Exactly - any comments about which looks good or not or about Wulven the company are quite irrelevant. This post in no way has any affiliation with Wulven and nor do I, in fact after the SF cards get art these attachments will be deleted. These are just fan fun and in no way should anyone interpret them as other. In time we will all get the art we crave, good or bad depending on your perspective. I do think the art is way too important in a ccg to skip and really look forward to the next round of pictures. Again I have zero say in the art decisions of the company Wulven so try to keep comments in the context of this fact, otherwise you're just howling up the wrong tree, yes I went there.
    Last edited by tafkad; 08-26-2014 at 04:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member gnodab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrfytr998 View Post
    I know I've been giving Wulven the business about the art issue, but in all fairness, it's easy to search out pictures and slap them on a template. Legally acquiring the art without violating copyright laws is a whole other ball of wax, and actually does take time. It also doesn't help when you use up the budget to run off physical cards. Yes. I went there.
    Agree with you on everything. As in the other thread

    But the point was just to applaud tafkad.
    Sure they are just mock ups, but great job none the less.
    I wish somebody could "hack" them into the game until we get the real art.

  4. #4
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Fan mock-ups for fun

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrfytr998 View Post
    It also doesn't help when you use up the budget to run off physical cards. Yes. I went there.
    You mean to print cards that people already paid for?

    It's not like SF is being printed.

  5. #5
    Senior Member fyrfytr998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnodab View Post
    Agree with you on everything. As in the other thread

    But the point was just to applaud tafkad.
    Sure they are just mock ups, but great job none the less.
    I wish somebody could "hack" them into the game until we get the real art.
    I'm right there with you buddy. I wish there was some sort of work around for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    You mean to print cards that people already paid for?

    It's not like SF is being printed.
    I wouldn't get too cheeky. Any statement I make about this subject, although based on responses made by you guys, is still merely speculative. While you being an actual team member will be taken at your word. Your reply just hammers home the point to the "digital only" customers that the focus on physical cards is more of a priority for Wulven. Be it getting people what they are owed or having fresh product on hand to demo and sell at shops and conventions. And it's hard for us digital only customers when common sense dictates that if we didn't have to deal with this physical card nonsense, SF would have been done already. Hell you guys might even be half way through designing the 4.0 expansion.

    Now all we got to look forward to is seeing how you guys are gonna rob Peter to pay Paul in order to print the SF cards.

    Pro Tip - Don't advertise your next kickstarter as "digital only". You'll probably get less backlash. That is if people aren't gun shy about funding it seeing how well this round turned out.

    I'm done. Let's get back to talking about how awesome this mock up was by tafkad.
    I'm old, experienced, and usually right. So eyes open, mouth shut, and you might learn a thing or two.

  6. #6
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    I moved some posts here since they were derailing another thread.

    I do want to respond to fyrfytr998, but I honestly don't know what to say at the moment. So I'll come back later when I've worked something out.

    p.s. For what it's worth, set 4 design is well underway.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tafkad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    p.s. For what it's worth, set 4 design is well underway.
    Sweet news indeed - thx GDC and you too fyrfytr - passion for this game from players like both of you and all the others is what it's all about in the end right, and getting there on time is always a bonus just knowing it will happen and will grow makes us all come back. Good luck guys

  8. #8
    Senior Member fyrfytr998's Avatar
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    How many more ways do you want to try and spin this? You've already said something to the effect of, "We did it. Deal with it, and move on."

    As I stated, any accusations myself or others make is purely speculative. We aren't privy to Wulvens account books. All we can do is put together the pieces of what we read and are told. Let's refresh with what the Kickstarters mission was..

    "As an indy game studio, it's a real challenge to deliver a quality product with the resources we have available. Many of the planned features have already been in development for awhile, but we need your help to take Shadow Era to the next level and realize its full potential!

    Wulven Game Studios has a long history of keeping close ties with the community, including holding card contests, listening to feedback, and being very active on our official forums. We even hired members of the community onto the design team!

    The first crowdfunding campaign to launch the physical version of the game ended up raising more than $230,000 and was responsible for creating a premium quality product on par with the best trading card games in the world. The most recent expansion, Dark Prophecies, is currently in production after raising $115,000 for the physical cards.

    Of course, those funds were entirely consumed in the course of producing the physical products, and that's why we need your support again to take the digital game to the next level!

    This isn't just a preorder for the next set, quite the contrary! Without your support, we might never be able to have Shadow Era realize its full potential. We've been working hard to develop the features that our fans have be clamoring for, and if this Kickstarter campaign is successful it will allow us to hire more quality developers and artists to finally realize our goals!

    Please note that this Kickstarter campaign is for the digital version of Shattered Fates only!"

    Your goal was $50,000 to implement the features you listed, and you successfully unlocked 3 of 4 stretch goals by hitting 78k. So even if you took the stretch rewards out of the mix, that is +28k for the digital product. Then you finished up with...

    "Although the next set of 200 cards is currently in production and beta testing, we really need your help to complete all the planned features that will make this Shadow Era 3.0! We've been struggling for a long time with our limited resources to bring our fans the new features that they've been dying for, but without the community's support it may never happen!

    If the Kickstarter is successful, the shadow crystal rewards will be given instantly so you can get started playing with the current set. Access to the closed beta will begin by January 2014, and booster packs and exclusive items will be credited as soon as Shattered Fates goes live.

    "But the real exciting part is of course all the new features! The Kickstarter will be funding the hiring of new fulltime developers and artists so we can drastically improve the presentation quality of the game. Each major feature is designed to be developed and implemented independently, so the risk of failure is greatly reduced. We'll be giving previews of each feature on the test server as we go, so we can gather valuable feedback and insight from our fans!"

    So was the 50k goal a gross underestimation? I find it, as I'm sure others do, hard to believe. Seeing as Wulven has already dropped two successful digital offerings WITH ART in the original game and DP. So what's different? Oh that's right. The introduction of physical cards. Cards that have been documented as being expensive to produce. Cards that didn't raise the same amount of money for DP as it did for CotC. Cards that have had distributor issues. Customs issues. Which led to issues with folks not getting what they paid for. And despite all this, Wulven has shown that it is going to continue to push for a foothold in the physical market. A market that shrinks year by year with the success of the digital format. The digital format that gave you your initial success. And I'm pretty sure it's the digital format that still is the majority of your customer base.

    Fact. Shadow Era is the only open DTCG right now, beta or otherwise, that has an incomplete art offering. I'm not a testing sort of fellow, so I can't comment on what happens during closed sessions. Art is the very heart of a TCG. It is the visual attraction of the cards that lures potential players in. Poll the community. If it came down to having art on all the cards of a new expansion or having a new sound track. What do you think would win out? And Wulven had 78 thousand dollars worth opportunities to make that happen. It should have taken precedents over any of the other features you guys are trying to implement, because at least with the art, a player could continue playing the game as is, and not deal with the eye sores that are those generic place holders.

    So there it is. The gist of my angst. I had actually felt bad I missed out on the SF kickstarter. Not any more. But I do spend a fair amount of my money on crystals to buy my cards. I tried farming, but it's too slow and not my style. If I like a product, I have no problem spending money on it. I have no interest in the physical cards, so there is no reason for me to support that endeavor. Especially when I'm already not getting what I've paid for.

    And on the issue of physical cards. Wulven has spent nearly $345,000 on their production. People are still waiting on their DP preorders. How does Wulven justify all the different free demos and sales at these shops and conventions of a product that is still owed to customers that are already paid in full? You guys had two free demos in my state recently. I gotta admit. I would have felt bad keeping the free cards knowing other people were waiting on theirs still.

    I wasn't looking for my own thread after the Loest thread, and was really just fooling around in tafkad's thread. But I figured why not. This will be my be all end all on this matter. All I expect from anyone from Wulven is more of the same. Which is basically "Deal with it."

    So even though I broke my own promise just to complete my SF collection, and spent more money on Crystals. I WILL NOT be spending another dime on this game when the next installment comes out if it is incomplete. I've got Hearthstone and Ascension to occupy my time and money as well.

    So say what you will. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Which let's me know I'm on the right track.

    Cheers.

    P.S. - It might have been a better idea to make the printing of physical SF cards your 80k stretch goal instead of the 50k one. Now you guys are on the hook for 18 complete sets and 6 boosters before you've even completed everything that was digitally promised.
    Last edited by fyrfytr998; 08-27-2014 at 07:12 AM.
    I'm old, experienced, and usually right. So eyes open, mouth shut, and you might learn a thing or two.

  9. #9
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    I have always valued honesty, regardless of whether it's honest opinion or fact, so thanks for writing all this up. I much prefer this to a disgruntled person saying nothing and harbouring their thoughts, since I don't really think that's in the interest of either party. So props to you for the honesty.

    Anyway, let's continue. Please excuse my reply in note form.

    1. You didn't back the kickstarter, but you have spent on the digital game? That's great! I won't ask how much you have spent, but do you think you got good value for whatever it was, including how much time you put into grinding?

    2. Do you know where your digital collection goes when a digital game dies?

    3. To what extent do you think honouring sales to paying customers is a good strategy for a business to remain alive and well?

    If you're able to reply to those questions, I feel I would understand your position much more clearly. Thanks in advance.

  10. #10
    Senior Member akratch's Avatar
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    Are you trying to say SE is going to fail? I am not buying another physical card due to your mind games.

    Why would anyone give y'all more money for a subpar product?


    NO ONE LIKES THE PHYSICAL GAME BECAUSE IT IS CUMBERSOME.

    I literally cannot get people to even try it.

    Why is that so hard to understand, you are going backwards, stop trying to make money on bullshit and focus on the bad ass game you made

    Thieves.

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