fyrfytr998's views on digital vs physical

[Gondorian]

Are you trying to say SE is going to fail? I am not buying another physical card due to your mind games.

Mind games?

No, I am attempting to understand why he thinks digital would be better off if physical cards people paid for were not sent to them. He dodged a similar question the first time and called me "cheeky".

His approach may have killed the game, if Kyle followed it.

But Kyle did something else and consequently SE is alive and well with all the purchased physical stuff delivered or on its way and sales increasing thanks to Champions programme.

Meanwhile, SF is in great shape digitally and the artwork will arrive for when SF leaves beta. Set 4 is in the design phase at the moment. SE's future has never been brighter.

I much prefer where we are now than where we would be if fyrfytr998 was making the tough calls.

[fyrfytr998]

I have always valued honesty, regardless of whether it's honest opinion or fact, so thanks for writing all this up. I much prefer this to a disgruntled person saying nothing and harbouring their thoughts, since I don't really think that's in the interest of either party. So props to you for the honesty.

Anyway, let's continue. Please excuse my reply in note form.

1. You didn't back the kickstarter, but you have spent on the digital game? That's great! I won't ask how much you have spent, but do you think you got good value for whatever it was, including how much time you put into grinding?

2. Do you know where your digital collection goes when a digital game dies?

3. To what extent do you think honouring sales to paying customers is a good strategy for a business to remain alive and well?

If you're able to reply to those questions, I feel I would understand your position much more clearly. Thanks in advance.

1. As a non testing digital customer, I have gotten awesome value from CotC and DP. Shattered Fates has been a let down because of this one issue. And I personally feel it should have remained a closed beta until it was at least ready to go aesthetically. That's why I avoid playing games in testing phases if I can. I personally feel the only reason this became an open beta was due to the rancor the players were causing about not getting new content in the allotted time. It would be a safe assumption you guys never intended to open up with place holders, would it not?

2. Don't treat me like a kid. I played and invested a decent amount of money into Guild Wars. A game I no longer have access to since switching to Apple from PC. Everybody knows the inherent risks of investing in a digital game. It's a calculated risk one has to make if it's for something they like. I currently read digital comic books instead of physical books, because I don't want the hassle of maintaining a physical collection again. The same way I got tired of sorting and organizing my MtG physical collection and sold it off. I pay Spotify a monthly fee to essentially rent access to their music catalogue. Let's be honest. The digital format is here to stay. And as long as a good product is being turned out, there should be no reason to fear losing anything purchased or "leased" digitally.

3. Honoring a sales agreement is paramount to good customer relations. By all means, give what you owe to your physical card customers. Just don't expect your digital customers and digital financial backers to remain silent when they aren't getting what they paid for as well. With the types of responses Wulven has been issuing on the subject, it is a fair assumption that you guys are doing just that. Satisfying your card customers at the expense of your digital customers. I've only been complaining about the lack of art. Imagine if there were a thread like this for every other digital feature that was promised and has yet to appear in spite of the fact it was successfully funded?

Mind games?

No, I am attempting to understand why he thinks digital would be better off if physical cards people paid for were not sent to them. He dodged a similar question the first time and called me "cheeky".

His approach may have killed the game, if Kyle followed it.

But Kyle did something else and consequently SE is alive and well with all the purchased physical stuff delivered or on its way and sales increasing thanks to Champions programme.

Meanwhile, SF is in great shape digitally and the artwork will arrive for when SF leaves beta. Set 4 is in the design phase at the moment. SE's future has never been brighter.

I much prefer where we are now than where we would be if fyrfytr998 was making the tough calls.

How have I dodged this question? All I stated was that digital players are of a very strong opinion that SF would be out of beta and complete if funds and resources didn't have to be allocated for physical cards. How would the game have been killed if the sole focus was on putting out the absolute best digital offering you could give? I called you cheeky, because you make it seem like I'm bashing you for good customer service. When in fact I'm bashing the fact that you guys are playing a game of perpetual catch up that could have been avoided all together. I say perpetual, because not only are you still catching up to your DP quota, but now you guys are already behind the eight ball on SF physical cards.

How does wanting to hang my hat on one hook put the game in danger? Especially if I ran a company that has successfully crowd funded on three separate occasions already? That makes no sense. So are we to infer that Shadow Era as a digital game was in trouble of folding? Because that certainly has not been the tone of the Wulven staff. If Wulven is using physical cards as a promotional tool for the digital game, well....you guys certainly picked the most expensive way to promote it.

You say, SF is in great shape digitally and all things are good to go to leave beta? Okay. I'll take you at your word. That should mean that Campaign Mode, 3D Battlefield, Tournament System, Player Auctions, etc.., that was funded successfully through the SF kickstarter are good to go too. Excellent. I'm sure no one is going to be let down. Or are you guys gonna play catch up with 4.0?

Where would Wulven be if they just continued making an awesome "digital game only" with a loyal following that is willing to raise funds for its continued success? Am I missing a broader picture? Is my way of thinking too narrow? Am I wrong to think that Wulven is in over their heads when a mega company like Blizzard couldn't even maintain a physical card game? How is my plan of action erroneous?

I can see that ultimately Wulven wants to breath that MtG air. A successful card and digital TCG. Remember though, MtG: Online is only a reality because of Hasbro. If not for them, people would probably still be stuck playing digital MtG on Apprentice. Maybe Wulven should have waited for their "Hasbro" before taking on such a dual task? I mean as a company, you guys are still young.

I really do hope this helps you understand my whatever better. I really couldn't be any more plainer. I hope this will all turn around soon, because at the end of the day. It is still a fun game to play.

And if me calling you "cheeky" was insulting. I apologize.

[akratch]

Suggesting I should be concerned about the wellbeing and longevity of my digital cards made me pretty upset. If you're trying to get people to buy physical cards based on the fact that the game might die, that is stupid. If the game dies, it will be because of popularity and no one will want to play it with physical cards either.

Sorry but shadow era cards are hardly a good investment, in my experience. People actually mock me or just ignore me when I try to get them to play it over warhammer or MTG. They will only try digital because they can play alone.

[Gondorian]

Suggesting I should be concerned about the wellbeing and longevity of my digital cards made me pretty upset. If you're trying to get people to buy physical cards based on the fact that the game might die, that is stupid. If the game dies, it will be because of popularity and no one will want to play it with physical cards either.

Sorry but shadow era cards are hardly a good investment, in my experience. People actually mock me or just ignore me when I try to get them to play it over warhammer or MTG. They will only try digital because they can play alone.

No, I didn't mean that. Regardless of physical existing or not, a digital game needs to continue or you lose all your stuff. I'm sorry if I scared you or anything like that. As I said before, the future is bright now.

@fyrfytr998: I meant the Shattered Fates set is in great shape. Most people mean that when they say SF. They don't mean the Shattered Fates kickstarter and all its stretch goals. That stuff's taking a while, yes, but since it was only funded in January then obviously that completely new stuff is going to take an appropriate amount of time to show up.

[fyrfytr998]

Suggesting I should be concerned about the wellbeing and longevity of my digital cards made me pretty upset. If you're trying to get people to buy physical cards based on the fact that the game might die, that is stupid. If the game dies, it will be because of popularity and no one will want to play it with physical cards either.

Sorry but shadow era cards are hardly a good investment, in my experience. People actually mock me or just ignore me when I try to get them to play it over warhammer or MTG. They will only try digital because they can play alone.

I hear you buddy. As far as I know, there have been exactly two SE demos in my state. And both were attended by 8 people or less. I saw a thread on a HS forum that listed all the physical TCG's that folded shop in the recent years. A lot of major licenses by major brands have fallen by the way side. Hence my stance on keeping it simple.

[Gondorian]

I hear you buddy. As far as I know, there have been exactly two SE demos in my state. And both were attended by 8 people or less. I saw a thread on a HS forum that listed all the physical TCG's that folded shop in the recent years. A lot of major licenses by major brands have fallen by the way side. Hence my stance on keeping it simple.

Can you point me at the thread, please? I think I'd find it interesting. Thanks.

[Padawan Pete]

Sorry but shadow era cards are hardly a good investment, in my experience. People actually mock me or just ignore me when I try to get them to play it over warhammer or MTG. They will only try digital because they can play alone.

This has not been my experience. My friends like playing all sorts of different games. Maybe you just had bad experience? Why would friends mock you for playing a different game anyway?

[fyrfytr998]

Can you point me at the thread, please? I think I'd find it interesting. Thanks.

Can't find the link, but off the top of my head.

Lord of the Rings
Battlestar Galactica
Star Wars
Beyblade
World of Warcraft TCG
Harry Potter
Power Rangers
Dragon Ball Z
Conan
X-Men and other Marvel Hero card games

I believe Star Trek may or may not be in that mix as well. Some good licenses listed there, with big followings. Too bad their game designers couldn't save them. With the exception of WoW TCG, which is essentially Hearthstone now, and ripping DTCG's a new one. 10 million+ players since going live in March. It probably helps that everyone and their mother is broadcasting their HS games on Twitch.

[Ekoz]

i'm not going to spend much time here: i've been a thorn in wulven's arse for too long as of late. but i feel that as a roughly equivalent supporter of both the digital and the physical game, in fair but non-threatening amounts, i can sort of explain the situation from a non-biased viewpoint, with no real frustration or hope for one manifestation or the other clouding my judgement.

basically, it comes down to this: the game started digital, and it spread its wings way too early. at least that's how i see it. fyr has a legitimate point in that deviation away from the primary development medium (digital) is sort of imposing, and not in a good way. wulven development constantly seems to look far too far into the future about the physical game, which is usually financed through kickstarter (which, from a purely objective view, is not a good thing for a company to utilize as often as wulven does since it amounts to begging your customers over and over for capital to repeatedly try out something which has a terrible track record), while engaging near radio silence about the digital game and its development (for example, auction house, 2v2, etc; all things promised through once again, kickstarter)

so, while it may not be true, it certainly does tend to seem that internal interests have been split; and that instead of maximizing a form of development and breaking down to development to manageable chunks, you just sort of tackle a giant rock all at once, expecting it to give way. a very prominent vibe i get from ANY wulven employee nowadays is "we need physical to promote digital, and we need to finish digital to manufacture physical". that's all good and well, but where in this cycle is there room for all the other things? i see no new in-house artists as promised, extraordinarily slow set development, and highly infrequent updates to the game infrastructure itself. that's where i think fyr and likeminded others are reaching their frustration. a promise was made, but you've interjected with "hold up, we gotta tackle physical first before we can afford to try those things."

don't try to tackle two fronts at once, i guess is what i'm saying. as a purely neutral person, who can see the merits in both sides, i have to say it makes sense to tackle the issues you have instead of tacking on a new one to stave off the pressure temporarily. i've been in both situations; it left both me and my relationships better to hunker down and engage the issue at hand.

[Bootsiuv]

1st post but been reading up on SE since I found it. Long time magic player so the game appealed to me and I can play on my phone at work.

I think the physical is a pipe dream. I'm sorry. This game will never be Magic 2.0. It's not going to happen.

Instead of continuing to cater to an extremely small crowd and spending those valuable resources on physical, you neeed to drastically increase ADVERTISING.

I found Shadow Era by looking for magic type game for my phone.

Your niche is this is a fun, relatively well-designed game THAT I CAN PLAY ON MY PHONE AT WORK.

I've already bought crystals, and will continue to do so because I like your product, but I think you would be better off, for now anyways, with just going digital.

Direct Competition against WotC generally doesn't work. Therefore, take advantage of your niche. I could never fit a magic game on my phone screen.

Just a thought. Keep up the good work regardless. It's a great game.