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  1. #1
    Senior Member Storknest's Avatar
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    True Hunter Trap Deck Discussion

    Some players have long wanted Hunter decks making good use of traps. The question is how many traps and which types.

    This was a deck I used on the Test Server when the SF Beta first started, slightly modified because I did not use Hunter's Gambit not realizing in full what it did until seeing it played.

    Baduruu

    4x Spitfire Hound
    3x Ravager Zealot
    4x Rampant Krygon

    3x Snare Trap
    4x Decoy Trap
    4x Ricochet Trap
    4x Death Trap
    4x Hunter's Gambit

    4x Cobraskin Wraps
    2x Feathered Longbow
    6x Power Bows (Soul Seeker, Grundler's Double, Emore Crossbow)

    This deck operates in 4 parts, that may be seen as too many compared to more focused decks yet it has worked.

    Traps
    I first set out trying to make a true trap deck.

    Snare Trap - For dealing with early allies.
    Decoy Trap - For protecting the meager number of allies used.
    Ricochet Trap - Hero protection and I just discovered it will harm opponents under Stealth.
    Death Trap - For dealing with all allies

    Initially, this deck has a deception element, less so later but there still is one. Part of the deception is people not realizing what traps you use. Good players will figure this out as the game goes on or in rematches but even then, the deception still exists in that when you play a trap, the opponent still has to figure out which one it is.
    Snare & Decoy are both 2cc, the only way to know which is out there is to bait it. Death & Ricochet are the same at 3cc. While it is possible to bait Snare and Death, there can still be problems based on how many traps you build up plus I found you can play 2+ of the same trap on your side. You can have 2 Snares out, he baits one but then plays into the second, same for the others so the deception element still exists to a degree.
    Playing so many traps provides a defensive element that allows Baduruu to survive until he gets out his bows. Also in a tournament that allows a sideboard, you can sideboard other traps for use against certain opposing Heroes such as Enchanted Oaks against Mages & Net Traps for decks only using high cost allies. I am still not confident Rolling Boulders is useful right now, 3cc for a Retreat only against high cost allies with a meager card draw does not compare well to other traps at that cost or even lessor cost.

    Weapons
    Obviously being a Hero with a weapon focused ability, bows get used and now there are 3 Power Bows to choose from. Try not to use them so much on allies because they are needed to hit the opposing Hero.
    Soul Seeker - For healing.
    Grundler’s Double - For card draw given the small ally numbers, has +1 DUR compared to other weapons and allows allies to attack through Stealth.
    Emore Crossbow - Does the most damage to allies.
    I should note the extra weapon, Feathered Longbow. Originally not in, I added a pair after playing a Threbin who, twice, destroyed a Power Bow leaving me for a turn or two without a weapon. Feathered is there for when that happens, it never gets played through Baduruu’s ability.

    Allies
    After working out Traps and Weapons, I realized I did not have much room for the ‘usual’ number of allies that is roughly 18 give or take a few. I had to get very picky in regard to what I added. Amazingly, I discovered the 2 low cost Ravagers, long considered not that good, actually fit here since I could destroy uneeded traps to activate their abilities, now they can also destroy Gambit. Rampant Krygon went in due to Haste. I consider all my allies one shot wonders, only Krygon is considered playable early, the Ravagers are more for mid to late game for their abilities though I might consider replacing Krygon with Bobcat to see what happens.

    Card Draw & Low Resources
    This I consider the same area. I had read how it was possible for Baduruu to play with low resources so I added Cobraskin Wraps instead of other armor, Wraps guarantees a card draw while other 4cc Hunter armor requires ally deaths plus Wraps might mess up the play of your opponent but does not bother you. Originally, I used Anmor’s Horn also for draw and getting rid of a card in hand I might find useless by saccing it then using the Horn for draw but now have switched to Hunter’s Gambit that can be destroyed by Ravagers.

    Conclusions
    I have only played this twice on the Live Server as I am now seriously playing Darkclaw and working on some other decks (including next post) but when I used it on the test server, here is what I noted.
    - Despite seeming odd, this deck can actually win so long as you stay focused and pay attention to what you do. I usually build decks using allies so this was a first for me, a deck using elements of Stall & Control. I did not even intend to build what I consider a ‘techy deck,’ I just wanted to see if a trap deck could work.
    - The matches I lost, I can say for certain it was my fault. I recall in every lost match there was a time I did something, clicked END TURN then suddenly asked/told myself, “Why did I do that?” or, “I shouldn’t have done that, I should have done this.” I lost because of my mistakes, not really the deck.
    - I actually got complimented by someone from a SE Team who was playing, at the time, the ‘killer’ Test Server Rothem and that match may have got close if I remember right before he broke out the 'killer' combo plus I know I made a mistake on one turn like my other losses. I have never gotten a compliment before from a Team member.
    - Hunter Trap decks appear to have potential, they just need tailoring based on the Hero (see below) and discussion especially since this is normally outside what deck type, Ally, I am used to.
    There are times I'll make up words and slip them into conversations just to see if anyone is actually protempifying to what I'm saying. - I'm not normal

  2. #2
    Senior Member Storknest's Avatar
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    Currently I have put thought into whether this could work for other Hunters though there would have to be changes. Offhand, my initial thoughts are these.
    Victor - Using his ability becomes a gamble because you will get whatever trap is on top of your graveyard though it is a sort-of draw and bonus if using Bobcat. I tend to build Victor decks based off one or two Hunter cards to guarantee I get them back.
    Gwen - Might be possible since she is a weapon focused Hero also, I am currently testing vs. the AI to determine how it would change the deck and which allies are best, see below.
    Ythan Redthorn - Not sure, he may have problems given his ability wants allies, not weapons, but one armor I am using in the Gwen deck could change that.
    Banebow - I always saw him as wanting other allies in his deck so I am also unsure here if it would work.
    Skervox - I just do not get this guy right now to comment.

    Here is the Gwen deck testing vs. the AI, I test against it before going against other players because if I cannot beat the AI reliably, then I consider a deck useless.

    Gwenneth Truesight

    4x Ascetic of Aldmor
    3x Twilight Ritualist
    4x Deepwood Bobcat

    3x Snare Trap
    4x Decoy Trap
    4x Ricochet Trap
    4x Death Trap
    4x Hunter's Gambit

    3x Wrath of the Forest
    1x Cloak of Phasing
    2x Feathered Longbow
    6x Power Bows (Soul Seeker, Grundler's Double, Emore Crossbow)

    Unlike Baduruu, Gwen cannot operate at low resources so Wraps and Horn are not good.

    Some card differences

    Ascetic of Aldmor - Cut me slack. When testing, I sometimes try out bad cards to see if there is any use for them at all. Sadly for the poor Ascetic, not only is he not good, I daresay he needs work (now that I tried him) since his ability requires that, in matches where you go first, you skip dropping a resource just to use his ability. You may be able to do that easily for a low resource Baduruu but this is a Human ally, who among Human Heroes works well at low resources? Still looking for something, it is difficult compared to Ally themed decks because I have to be very picky about who gets chosen.

    Twilight Ritualist - Normally I fall into patterns being an ‘orderly, organized’ person including thinking of Tribe allies within Tribes but this was a rare time I thought outside that box much like the low cost Ravagers in the Baduruu deck. Ritualist is a serious contender for a deck wanting item, support and attachment destruction. Normally, item destruction cards cost a lot (Ley Line Nexus, Dawn Raid) and I find sometimes I build a deck with certain goals and have no room for destruction cards. Sometimes you get one with extra use such as Artful Squire that doubles as an ally and is an interesting comparison to Ritualist. Ritualist can easily fit in the favored 3cc spot in ally based decks (here not competing with Bobcat or 4cc armors) and provides interesting competition when compared to other 3cc allies for Humans. Until you need her item / ability destruction, she has a solid 5 health though a low 2 attack but the amount of cards she can target is quite significant.

    Deepwood Bobcat - For Baduruu, I skipped this wanting to ensure my 4cc play went to the armor. Bobcat is useful especially with all the trap play giving it Ambush to combo with weapon attacks but it suffers from the 4cc cost, the same as some Hunter armors that provide needed card draw. I did not use him in Baduruu because for some reason, I automatically think he is Human when he can go Shadow and I did not want competition with Wraps.

    Cloak of Phasing - no card draw but this boosts defenses with all the trap / Gambit / Bobcat play, for some Heroes not using their ability much it gives an SE sink for more defense and it solves the problems of competing with other 4cc cards. I could see using this as the preferred armor of some Hunters if getting card draw from elsewhere such as Ythan, Banebow & Skervox.

    So far from a few games, I think Gwen may not need as many bows since she adds durability to get more use from them unless they are destroyed but I need a good third ally instead of Ascetic and might even consider going up to 50 cards adding a fourth ally, more card draw then considering amount of traps and weapons. Even if destroyed, Gwen is not Baduruu, if she has enough resources to play a Power Bow, then she can play another thus removing the need for Feathered Longbow.

    EDIT - Why does Grundler's Double not link to the card picture when spelled correctly?
    Last edited by Storknest; 08-18-2014 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Adding thoughts on other Hunter Heroes with deck type
    There are times I'll make up words and slip them into conversations just to see if anyone is actually protempifying to what I'm saying. - I'm not normal

  3. #3
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    I think Victor is best with trap builds. Recycling traps is much easier with Lily. He has a lot of durable allies to chose from to help set up but to also serve as pseudo weapon destruction as there is almost no room for item destruction (Sandworm, Wisp, Viska) superior control options (Layarian seductress, better use of Gambit). He also has access to neat tech cards like FFM(pseudo draw/recycle), Spirit Warden(anti ally loop/anti IC and Soul Reaper/anti Gravebone), Brax Soldier (anti haste), A Legend Rises(anti attachment, this on Viska is too much for many heroes to deal with). He is less susceptible to weapon destruction.

    Few questions/remarks about your builds:

    Why no Survivalist? That card is made for trap builds as you draw out of every trap activation (except snare trap).

    Gwen can't be played without Rapid Fire/Spotter. These are her power cards, not weapons.
    Last edited by Veles; 08-18-2014 at 08:48 PM.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Storknest's Avatar
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    Interesting, when I build Victor (when I last did), I tend to focus on one Hunter card that I can definitely get back from the graveyard through his ability. Right now, that would probably be Gambit, used to be Surprise Attack.
    That is why I am not so interested in doing this with Vic. I could wind up with 2 traps on top of Gambit in the Graveyard and I may not want that top graveyard trap. Having no Hunter cards other than Gambit gives me Vic's ability & the graveyard as another way to get guaranteed card draw.

    Almost out of gold from spending on different deck ideas, not enough crystals yet for any purchase and only have 2 Survivalist.
    Only 1 RF & no Spotters.
    Gwen of course is still in testing. I can see removing the Longbows for 2 spots, changing the traps back to 15 instead of the 19 now for 4 more spots.
    That is 6 spots open and I need a better ally than Ascetic.
    Power Bows, I currently have 3 SS, 1 GD and 2 EC though I could see removing the EC's for something, getting to 7 is tough even against the AI and with her ability to boost durability without RF & Spotter's, 6 Power Bows are not needed. With dual attacking it might be different.
    There are times I'll make up words and slip them into conversations just to see if anyone is actually protempifying to what I'm saying. - I'm not normal

  5. #5
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Wrath of the forest definitely feels wrong in a deck geared toward traps. I also find it kind of sad that Master Trapsetter can't find a place in an all-traps deck.

    Since this deck is all about shutting down allies, it feels like it may work well with night prowler. All those decoy traps would keep it up even if attacked, and then you can use that time to steal their hand.
    Last edited by bobrossw; 08-20-2014 at 11:50 PM.

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