Loest is WoW Art

[Demnchi]

There's no way to copyright an "owl staff" and the idea certainly wasn't first used in WoW...

A quick search on Google gives plenty of examples, including real life antiques.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/574500-...nial-Owl-Staff
Attachment 6349

The character is still way too close though (basically some slight color change and removal of facial hair). Even if it isn't technically illegal (as Twio said you have the rights to these images), its still terrible for the game in general, this situation is a perfect example of why the game shouldn't be using fan art from other IPs, even if altered.

[Peithoson]

Really? :/ It doesn't look like him, I don't think he can even wear full plate armor

The art was changed because Blizzard wasn't having any of it.

[Daemon Rayge]

Really? :/ It doesn't look like him, I don't think he can even wear full plate armor

Was referring to the original artwork before the one we have now

[Twio]

There's no way to copyright an "owl staff" and the idea certainly wasn't first used in WoW...

No-one is claiming that you can. However it's not just an owl staff, it's World of Warcraft's "Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian" - a staff which is easily recognizable by fans of said game. It's not similar, it is the exact same staff. Not only that, but Loest's entire art is a portrait of a character in WoW.

I'm worried because you seem to be making a habit of using fanpics of your main rival's game as artwork for your own game. I don't know whether it's intentional or not but the fact is it makes new players think that your game is a rip-off of Blizzard's.

The art was changed because Blizzard wasn't having any of it.

Ah.

[Shadow Era]

Inspiration for artists comes from a lot of different sources. Although I would love to have all the art be custom commissions, the simple fact of the matter is that we're a small indy game studio, and due to cost and time constraints we have to license many existing artworks. If the artwork is too close to an existing IP, then of course we will change it or alter it. If you would like to point out specifically why this owl staff is recognizable, it would help. Obviously our intentions are not to copy the IP of other games, but simply to legally acquire great art.

@Peithoson please don't jump to conclusions. We voluntarily changed the artwork in question when it was pointed out that it was too similar to an existing character from another game.

[Demnchi]

Inspiration for artists comes from a lot of different sources. Although I would love to have all the art be custom commissions, the simple fact of the matter is that we're a small indy game studio, and due to cost and time constraints we have to license many existing artworks. If the artwork is too close to an existing IP, then of course we will change it or alter it. If you would like to point out specifically why this owl staff is recognizable, it would help. Obviously our intentions are not to copy the IP of other games, but simply to legally acquire great art.

@Peithoson please don't jump to conclusions. We voluntarily changed the artwork in question when it was pointed out that it was too similar to an existing character from another game.

Because its fan art a lot of detail probably went into it, which is why he was easily spotted as Medivh the moment it was revealed. Removing a few details likely won't prevent fans from realizing similarities and piecing it together.

Also, even if its not your intention to become a "rip-off", it still gives off the vibe that that's what you're trying to accomplish when you do this. Regardless of what the real intentions are. It removes the individuality the game should possess, which is why any of us would make note of it to you.

[Peithoson]

@Peithoson please don't jump to conclusions. We voluntarily changed the artwork in question when it was pointed out that it was too similar to an existing character from another game.

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....attle+Hardened

Fair enough, but I still stand by my statement. This is also not the first time Loest has been brought up over the art.

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....attle+Hardened

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....attle+Hardened

[Twio]

If the artwork is too close to an existing IP, then of course we will change it or alter it. If you would like to point out specifically why this owl staff is recognizable, it would help. Obviously our intentions are not to copy the IP of other games, but simply to legally acquire great art.

Basically the main problems which make the staff recognisable are:
- The owl is in an identical pose to the owl on WoW's staff
- The decoration at the head of the staff (feathers and baubles) are very similar to those on WoW's staff
- The ravens all around Loest - WoW's staff is supposed to attract ravens to the person wielding it.

With this in mind, personally I would suggest the one or some of the following:
- Change the owl to a different object / animal (E.g. a lion's head, a huge jewel)
- Change the pose of the owl (E.g. have the wings outstretched)
- Remove or replace the decorations at the head of the staff (can't just do this, would need to make another change too)
- Remove the raven on Loest's shoulder or change it so it looks less like a raven (E.g change colour, make it a hawk)

[Ekoz]

this is actually starting to get kind of pathetic. no lie; this would be rediculous even if blizzard wasn't their main competitor, but blizzard IS their main competitor which makes it even worse. Morbid Acolyte and Bloodthirsty can longer be changed, but at the very least you can still fix the top two offenders that use MAJOR figures that ANY WoW player can recognize almost immediately.

With this in mind, personally I would suggest the one or some of the following:

brother, don't even bother trying. read this thread; it's the exact same situation, but with Phoenix Urigon (which uses artwork of Deathwing) instead of Loest
http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....attle+Hardened

and all that was done was the image was zoomed in. i mean, kyle even asks the same thing "tell me how you can recognize this dragon and we'll change it". after several posts explaining how he's recognizable...nothing. just a zoom job. also a ton of give-no-shits comments from the big man himself, but that's besides the point.

it's still recognizable.

[gnodab]

It is kind of sad to see how the art is progressing.
The art was among the first things which got me into SE. IN CotC it felt consistent, unique and of overall high quality. Each faction had a specific flavour and you could tell which cards belonged where just from the artwork. DP was still good, with a few exceptions (MA, Bloodthirsty as mentioned). But SF really is all over. There are so many problems, it is almost funny.

First off there is the whole botched release. Letting Cards in a CCG hit the live server without artwork is a spectacularly bad decision. But we could argue, that it is supposed to be a beta (what isn't nowadays) and that it is kinda our fault, because we kept screaming for it. Fine.
But that us were the second problem comes in, the art itself. If the revealed art would be of the usual Wulven quality, we would still be making jokes about Wulven time, but thats cool. We all know Wulven is barely a company and that is what makes them so sympathetic, they keep pushing above their weight and we love them for that

Sadly the art is all over the place.

First it is inconsistent. A few examples Bog-Dweller and Evolving Abomination are so obviously Shadow cards, it is silly.
Praxix looks nothing like the Elementals from SE, but like the worst kind of unimaginative fantasy Elemental (hes elemental, cause he Water). There is no way in which he fits into the Elementals rooster, not even the effort was made to at least keep him in the amazing color scheme, which makes Elementals so unique. Even Energy Discharge, would have made a better hero art, imo.
The same problems occurs with the tribes, while most seem fine, especially the Yari have no consistency what so ever. They are currently made up off undead/orc spearman, elven archears, skyrim vikings, barbarians and some kind of beduin ninjas. I like most of their artwork, but I can see no theme for the life of me. They just seem thrown together with art that wasn't used elsewhere.

The second problem is the quality of the art. Here I feel especially bad of the Shadow Heroes. While the Human Heroes (with the exception of Tala and Threbin) all look great and like they belong in SE. The Shadow Heroes, aside from Raikka, all look terrible and don't look like SE cards at all. They don't fit their specific factions/themes (like I pointed out with Praxix, though the same goes for the others, with the exception of Raikka and Bloodfang) and they don't have the quality artworks we are used to from SE, which is especially bad since Hero Cards are the most important and the face of the game.

And then there is of course the problem with the use of Fanart pointed out in this thread...
When or if SE ever gets successful you will punch yourself in the face for this. It is one thing to plead ignorance in a thread on your own forums and with your own fans. It might not be convincing, but the threads do die down with time and there are no consequences other that we might feel a little bit put down. But good luck with this strategy in court. SE only gets away with this because, let's be honest, the community is very, very small (and seems to be shrinking ever more). We are pretty tight knit and we all love SE, so no one is going to post on Blizzards Forums and even if they did SE is to tiny for Blizzard to care anyways (I hope). But if SE ever gets commercially successful this will be a disaster. Using fanart of existing IPs is just one step away from using actual game assets and no amount of color correction is going to save you there. You can apply copyrights all you like, the original IP (from a company with infinite money) is going to win in a heartbeat. Just look what happened with Hex. And that was a difficult case, since the similarities were "just" mechanical. Comparing artworks is trivial.

So, sorry for the rambling post and all the criticism. I don't usually post much on forums and I feel I did post a lot (critically) here in the past weeks, but that only goes to show that I like the game. I backed the kickstarter, I got several friends into the game (who all subsequently left) and I would rather back another kickstarter for SF art or SF2.0 than see SE disappear altogether.