Problem cards within the Discard lineup - Take Two

[Preybird]

Last chance to cast votes before the poll closes.

[Gondorian]

I voted!

[a player]

Twilight herald and for unaxio, any 1\1 and the sharpness card for +2\0. Keep in mind the herald would be suiciding vs karash by buffing themself plus for unaxio, or not suiciding but using sharpness. Also, to be absurd, a herald discarding devourerkills karash but not a herald. Then theres two of the 0/2 steed that gives one attack +1\+0 as a variation on the sharpness play.

Now, if were talking play on t2 kill on t3 with no t3 cards or resources used, we have a few more options.

Twilight opportunist in theory, but at the moment there's no way to haste it on t2. Same with the 3\1 human whose name I forgeet, and deathbone. hence both are t2 plays but need t3 to get the kill.

Edit twilight and puwen is a play on 2 kill on 3 move since puwen isn't hasted. And that also allows two heralds to kill a karash., but then unlike puwen + twilight, two twilights can kill a 2\4 herald.

So I can think of lots of ways to kill karash but not herald.

Are you talking about Twilight Herald, Harbinger of the Lost, both, or something else?

[Khamya9]

Are you talking about Twilight Herald, Harbinger of the Lost, both, or something else?

Bah, that's what I get for posting at work while I'm distracted... Both. Twilight herald to kill harbinger. For some reason my brain keeps renaming harbinger as herald of the lost. I'll try to clean that up.

Thanks for the catch.

Edit, cleaned I hope it makes sense now.

[Heidrek Rampant]

For the record, I love discard as a mechanic and always have. Back in my mtg days I used to love running a black based hand disruption deck or green/black fast reanimation deck. I don't have an issue with this mechanic at all per se it's just getting the balance right that's tricky.

I feel for the DT as it's a thankless job most of the time and very hard to get right.

I think that on the whole the set has been done well, and with a few small tweaks it will be ready to roll out to the masses.

Right now I do wish that there was a generic human ally that was 2 resources for a 2/2 which has there ability - while an opponent controls an undead ally 'this' has +1 attack and +1 health. Would help balance out grave resistance but means you have sub par allies if your opponent is playing any undead.

[XanteseZerylliom]

I had a thought that may be completely baseless (you know, since I haven't been active in quite some time and haven't actually had the opportunity to play against a discard Zal yet), but I thought it was worth throwing out there anyway. If those "discarded from anywhere" cards were made to act one way when discarded from hand and another way when discarded from deck (no idea how much coding that would take or if it's even possible), would it solve any problems? For instance, if BD had it's current ability when discarded from the deck, Praxix can keep him, and if he lost the ability he has for, say, only doing one or two damage from the hand, would that help matters at all? You still lessen the blow of discarding a card, but you lose some of the punch Praxix can give these types of allies.

[magemachine]

Imo the big problem with Living Armor and Brimstone Devourer is their haste.
Most discard mechanics, while offering useful card and field advantage, give your opponent a turn to control or respond to the threat. Brimstone Devourer and Living Armor have minimal counter play and are typically used in conjunction with effects that already give card advantage for the "cost" of discarding. Haste is huge and represents why a 2/2 for 3 (with an admittedly good active) receives as much love as it does.

[Gondorian]

Thanks for all the feedback via this thread and the one that led up to it.

Here are the balance changes we came up with:

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....anges-for-2-86