Problem cards within the Discard lineup - Take Two

[Preybird]

Sorry guys, the last one was closed because it couldn't be edited, so here's the proper thread.

Basically this is a drilldown of the problem cards within the discard mechanic. As opposed to simply saying discard as a whole is too strong this is an effort to narrow it down to specific targets within the mechanic. Heroes are to be taken into account when making your vote/s as always when considering a cards power level, but they are not the primary issue here.

You can select as many options as you like. (It's multiple choice now )

Apologies to everyone who already voted, you'll need to do it again. Sorry!

Remember balance discussions come later, once we've narrowed the field.

[ShrapnelFox]

I don't see a poll?

[Preybird]

Thread gets posted first and then I have to set up the poll. It's there now.

[Xander Spitfire]

Thanks Preybird for setting this up for a second time

When you vote no does it means "not a single tweaking is required" or does it means "don't hurt the archetype"?

[Veles]

I hope Gondorian is making up to you for all this extra work. I voted LA as I think it is only card that could use some MINOR tweaking. Otherwise I am fine with archetype as is.

[Gondorian]

I hope Gondorian is making up to you for all this extra work. I voted LA as I think it is only card that could use some MINOR tweaking. Otherwise I am fine with archetype as is.

What's all this about an archetype?

There's so much more at play here. The ability to turn a cost (discard a card) into a benefit (ally or damage for 0cc and that same card) is useful in way more than one "archetype". And if we think further into the future, the cards that allow that will only get more useful in more decks.

OK, sorry for the interruption. Please continue.

[Veles]

I am sorry if I come out as rude or something, but I am not aware of other decks that utilize LA and devourer as effectively as Zaladar so I am focusing on him. Other heroes just don't have nearly as much synergy with LA and Devourer as Zaladar, mostly because of his ability. For example I am perfectly ok with all of these cards in Elementalis deck as they really helped him to become better hero, offering him what he missed before, a way to control the board by other means then just allies he has currently in play. Zaladar did not miss board control before and now he has so much options.

As far as human discarding goes change to Wisp was well thought and balanced it out.

I am well aware of complexity of balancing process and have full faith in DT to make correct choices as they have done so far. And since DT members are only persons here that know what future holds for new sets, I am not competent to discuss about these sort of implications. Only thing I do now in current situation is that Zaladar is using these cards extremely well, far better then other heroes. It is my subjective opinion and you can take it seriously or not, as relevant or irrelevant. Since I expressed it few times now I am done with this discussion.

[Gondorian]

I am sorry if I come out as rude or something, but I am not aware of other decks that utilize LA and devourer as effectively as Zaladar so I am focusing on him. Other heroes just don't have nearly as much synergy with LA and Devourer as Zaladar, mostly because of his ability. For example I am perfectly ok with all of these cards in Elementalis deck as they really helped him to become better hero, offering him what he missed before, a way to control the board by other means then just allies he has currently in play. Zaladar did not miss board control before and now he has so much options.

As far as human discarding goes change to Wisp was well thought and balanced it out.

I am well aware of complexity of balancing process and have full faith in DT to make correct choices as they have done so far. And since DT members are only persons here that know what future holds for new sets, I am not competent to discuss about these sort of implications. Only thing I do now in current situation is that Zaladar is using these cards extremely well, far better then other heroes. It is my subjective opinion and you can take it seriously or not, as relevant or irrelevant. Since I expressed it few times now I am done with this discussion.

Sorry I misunderstood what you were referring to with "archetype". And now you've elaborated, I hear you are happy with the balance of discard-me-for-direct-benefit stuff too, providing the cards that have discard as a cost are balanced. Thanks for the elaboration.

@Everyone:

Whilst it is true, DT has better outlook on future sets, I will confirm now, so that you can all expect it, that there will be more cards in future sets with discard as a cost. It's such a neat thing, since you can carry more varied stuff in your deck and know that what's not relevant in whatever scenario you find yourself, that you can turn a junk card into a whole different card. e.g. I was just playing a Gwen deck with Knight of Unaxio. All her spare abilities that you duplicate in your deck for consistency essentially become 0cc - Target KoU that is not exhausted gets +2/+2 (max once per turn).

Balancing the cards that have discard as a cost with Devourer, Reactorary and Buccaneer in mind will likely make them too weak without those cards (from what Veles says, it sounds like they are), so we could paint ourselves into a corner, so to speak, if we leave those three cards unchanged. We nerfed Reactorary a bit a while ago, so that its stats are less impressive if you either lucked him onto the board or got him there for better than free. BETTER THAN FREE! I wonder if Devourer and Buccaneer should have similar treatment. Someone suggested Devourer could do 2 damage instead of 3, which I'd probably accompany with a stat buff if I made that nerf.

I hope this helps show where I'm coming from. I don't want cards with discard as a cost to either be broken or have so limited viable use with a handful of discard-me-for-direct-benefit cards. Maybe the discard as a cost cards just need buffing (in conjunction with nerf to Buccaneer and Devourer) so they get used more widely outside of one archetype?

[ShrapnelFox]

Maybe the discard as a cost cards just need buffing (in conjunction with nerf to Buccaneer and Devourer) so they get used more widely outside of one archetype?

Personally I think both of these cards are already well balanced. - Weakening Buccaneer, I fear would make her unusable.

[Gondorian]

Personally I think both of these cards are already well balanced. - Weakening Buccaneer, I fear would make her unusable.

Any change would weaken what you get for free in exchange for some other buff. It's how Reactorary became a 4/3 summoned ally for 3cc, which is decent regardless of whether you DMFDB (discard-me-for-direct-benefit). Buccaneer is definitely unplayable outside of DMFDB right now, so we could do better there.