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  1. #11
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    I've been pondering the possibility of switching Night Owl out for Layarian Seductress or Sword Thief. Both work great with Backstab and could be interesting to protect a lead.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member segalion's Avatar
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    If you decide to use knight of unaxio also consider strength of conviction. It is great with zailen also.
    You might also consider radient wisp with her attachment ability
    Regarding LS and ST although not fan of LS in rogues think that in this low resource build it might work. I think it will be preferable over ST here due to 4 health.
    Last edited by segalion; 08-01-2014 at 07:37 PM.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDL View Post
    I've been pondering the possibility of switching Night Owl out for Layarian Seductress or Sword Thief. Both work great with Backstab and could be interesting to protect a lead.
    I can see seductress working consistently in this deck, considering that you usually stay low on resources in the early game, you should be consistently behind on the resource-curve for her ability to work.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    But then you lose draw of NO and you are already so low on it, and less offensive if no turn 2 drop when going first
    Last edited by Veles; 08-01-2014 at 11:42 PM.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    But then you lose draw of NO and you are already so low on it, and less offensive if no turn 2 drop when going first
    Just playing devil's advocate here, but my sense of night owl is that it serves three functions:

    1) get board presence/control when you don't have it
    2) make the opponent waste ally removal cards
    3) help pile on when you already have complete board control

    I don't really see it as a draw engine, though when it gets destroyed, I get kind of happy when they wasted a card doing it.

    Seductress plays these roles
    1) get board presence/control when you don't have it
    2) keep board control by softening up guys for your other guys to kill

    They're both fairly similar in that first role, but Seductress excels at helping to take down big guys with groups of little guys (or double attacks). The card that night owl gives you is nice, but you don't play it to draw a card...you play it for other reasons and that card is a bonus. For example, playing it to waste that lightning bolt before your other guys come out. So you pay 3, never get an attack off, and waste a lightning bolt, but get a card - so you're up one card in relation to the opponent. Alternatively, with seductress, he wastes a lightning bolt, but hopefully also needs an attack, or some other damage card. More likely the lightning bolt stays in hand, and it hits your next guy instead. If the lightning bolt gets played, you've still got a 2/1 on the board for them to deal with, which may cost a second card, in which case you're still up one card (they spent 2 for 1). If the lightning bolt stays in hand (say they used allies to take her out), then you've got to worry abut it hitting your other guys...in that case, the Night Owl would have been better. If you've got a scenario where there's a 2/5 out and you've got a 2/3 on board, seductress is better. The 2/5 kills your night owl before he attacks, and you've just wasted a turn (but not a card) to prevent 2 damage from your 2/3, and you're still not closer to killing the guy. If instead you drop seductress, you can disable the 2/5 and do 2 damage to him with your 2/3, then next turn, you can decide how to take him out. If you manage to drop him with only allies, then you're up one card, which is better than if you had played night owl (used a card, drew a card).

    So my point is they have different advantages, but Night Owl should not be used just because you need a draw engine the card draw alone does not justify his use. If, depending on the meta-game, or strengths/weaknesses of the deck, Seductress lets you win more trades than night owl, then she really winds up being the better card. I think testing is in order to figure that out.

  6. #16
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    So I've been playing around with the general style of deck and have found a few nice combos to consider throwing in:

    1) Zealous Mystic - it does work like I suggested, it gives some nice quick burst damage on top of what is already here. It gives you a chance at hasted damage, which may just get you past that last bit of life, or help take out armor. In one game, zaladar kept dropping living armor, and with two mystics in hand and a backstab, I was able to take it down so my heavy hitter could do damage (without getting killed by the armor in the next turn). It can also safely deal with black-garb, which is a noted weakness of this deck.

    2) Radiant wisp - I just started testing this, but consider that backstab stays on your ally during their turn making it stay a 4/5 while they're trying to deal with it. I find that dropping guys with 5 toughness forces enemies to waste more removal cards / ally attacks that could be damaging me. It makes them get overwhelmed. This also means that if wisp gets killed, you get your backstab back (more card draw/damage). If not, you can do some solid damage, especially if you put treasured heirloom on it...so you buff it to a 3/5 easily with just treasured heirloom, a 6/6 with heirloom and backstab. There are enough attachments in this deck to make this guy worth it.

    I've taken out anklebreaker and don't really miss it. My sense is that anklebreaker won't win a game for me, so I may as well focus on allies. If my allies fail, the game is over anyway, anklebreaker or no. I still want to do some testing, but I think anklebreaker and ironmonger are solid options for removal if you want to try variations on this deck.

  7. #17
    DP Visionary FDL's Avatar
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    Interesting thoughts.

    I've liked Anklebreaker so far because I have no ally removal and I use it when I'm ahead on T5 or 6 to delay my opponent just enough to squeek the last damage points in.

    It has also been the killing blow on quite a few occasions. It's potentially 8 'hasted' damage.

    I like your ideas though.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member segalion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobrossw View Post
    So I've been playing around with the general style of deck and have found a few nice combos to consider throwing in:

    1) Zealous Mystic - it does work like I suggested, it gives some nice quick burst damage on top of what is already here. It gives you a chance at hasted damage, which may just get you past that last bit of life, or help take out armor. In one game, zaladar kept dropping living armor, and with two mystics in hand and a backstab, I was able to take it down so my heavy hitter could do damage (without getting killed by the armor in the next turn). It can also safely deal with black-garb, which is a noted weakness of this deck.
    Another advantage of Zealous Mystic is that it can take out a disabling attachments for the price of 2cc
    If we are facing Warriors/Priests/Wulven and get Crippled/Captured/Zyled you can play it and just move the attachment to her and free the ally you need (i once had Eriss Captured which meant it can't take it out alone and mystic took it away so she was free to take it out of mystic also).
    In the beginning the Universe was created.
    This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by segalion View Post
    Another advantage of Zealous Mystic is that it can take out a disabling attachments for the price of 2cc
    If we are facing Warriors/Priests/Wulven and get Crippled/Captured/Zyled you can play it and just move the attachment to her and free the ally you need (i once had Eriss Captured which meant it can't take it out alone and mystic took it away so she was free to take it out of mystic also).
    yup - I've done that too. Just remember, with Zail's Hymn, if you remove it, the ally goes back to the deck.

  10. #20
    Senior Member segalion's Avatar
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    Been running this build for the last 10 days, hovering around 280
    Some additional stuff we might consider
    As was already mentioned I would take out AB. IMO the number of games AB might help us is not that big. To keep AB until t5 means sacrificing other things. Since we need our allies for win, and our attachment is the deck base it just hurts us.
    Once taking out AB I would switch skilled ironmager with lyrian diplomat. I would do so even with AB as I think LD brings us a lot more value in mid game the Ironmager.
    Additional change we might consider is replacing one of Eriss copies with growing bog dweller. When facing opponents that shut us down with attachments he can just kill ally and get buffed. This can help us with unique allies (COI, Aldon, irina) while freeing Eriss to remove attachments from heroes. It can also allow us inflicting last point of damage (hit with ally, kill him get buff and hit with dweller)
    One last thing to consider is reconnaissance. Adding one attack to all allies may be the thing we need to finish off opponent
    In the beginning the Universe was created.
    This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

    IGN: TJ Segalion - Green Creatures from other planets can also go Juggernauts !

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