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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jao's Avatar
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    i don't think the recent 30 games should count more than the other 30 games before it. every game should average out equally. but i do think the scores for each won game should increase as the ratings go up. another multiplier should be added if you beat another top hero user.

    eg. you beat a top 10 Majiya player, your score should be higher, the higher the "hero rank" of the player you beat, the bigger the score.

    i am however against the award being a collectible card. the reward should be something that cannot be owned but as merely "passed on" to the next player who gets it.

    for example, you are the top 1 Zaladar player for the month, as reward, you get a special border specially designed for the top 1 Zaladar player. you and only you can use that border. if next month you are not top 1 anymore, you lose the border and someone else gets to use it. each rank gets a different border. this way, you can show off your skills with a particular hero and would not devalue the reward. i wouldn't want to see multiple players running around with the same border. i only want to see one. the current top player.
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  2. #22
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    @Jao: Recent games would be worth more so that losses in the past do not hold you back too much (since this is lifetime results, people with a bad win rate early on may otherwise not even bother later), and also recent results are more indicative of your current skill.

    Something special for the top 10 per hero is my preferred because it means there is more for the masses to aim for, making far more ranks relevant.

  3. #23
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    The achievement idea is exciting. One achievement could be defeating the AI/Player with empty deck damage and another could be for winning due to an enemy's own ability (like Blood Frenzy). It would make matches super fun even if it just against AI.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Quick clarification: I would not want to reset the hero skill score for each person every month. The idea is that this is the long-term thing to work for and keep people playing. Hopefully, your actual skill with a hero does not drop to zero on the 1st of each month! Think of it like tracking to what level you have mastered that hero. So it would be your complete history with that hero in QM, but with the most recent 30 games counting for more.
    Gondorian,

    The great issue with assuming – it’s guessing.
    So I’ll do the right thing this time – ask questions first and then provide actually relevant feedback

    With the knowledge the top 10 score won’t reset:

    Q. How, when and would you provide rewards?

    a) Does it occur as soon as they enter the top 10?
    - Hence would they receive a reward each time they shuffled place within the top 10?
    - When this first starts the first player to play a game will be in the top 10 and instantly rewarded?

    b) Does it occur on a certain day each month?
    - So if a player has been in the top 10 for 28 days, but fallen out on the reward day they miss out?
    - Or if every player who’s been in the top 10 during the month gets rewarded. So due to the shuffling of places within the month, 175 1st place rewards could be handed out on a single reward day.

    Q. How will the exploitation of “locking” in the top 10 position be overcome?

    I mentioned this briefly in my initial analysis of this feature as an exploit, which I thought was being avoided by having a monthly reset, so I’ll give some more detail now.

    If a player has an amazing win streak at a very high rank (I.e. 30 wins at rank 350+) they can ‘lock’ in a top 10 position indefinitely if they cease playing with that hero in QM. (as the score doesn’t reset, nor does in depreciate like rank) Eventually all top 10 positions for all heroes would be locked by amazing streaks.

    If the reward is delivered monthly, the players will also receive a reoccurring reward each month without needing to play a single match.
    Also take into account each season the highest ranks varies, thus affecting the ‘highest score’ possible to be achieved.

    Concerns at this point:

    This feature will potentially become a model of the “highest 30 game top score for each hero ever achieved”. The top 10 scores will become static – as a player will want to hold the title and reap the rewards. (So they’ll get a super high score – then cease playing with that hero in QM’s)
    Unfortunately the majority of players are going to dismiss this as personally unachievable and thus 95% of players will not get involved with this feature.

    NOTE: This model will also not be as useable as a Product Tool in identifying the effectiveness of heroes as the data will be primarily static data and you’d be only ever seeing and recording the highest outlier scores. (When you perform a statistical analysis you typically ignore outliers as they are not a true indication of the expected outcome)

    {In comparison to a monthly reset, which would reflect an accurate average score achieved by each hero, on a monthly basis. This data could be plotted and an accurate mean established, for identifying the effectiveness of each hero}


    Gondorian,

    Are you able to supply a more detailed proposed business model for this feature?
    Feel free to PM me, if you don’t wish to discuss it on a public forum.
    Last edited by ShrapnelFox; 06-20-2014 at 11:30 AM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganjamus View Post
    The achievement idea is exciting. One achievement could be defeating the AI/Player with empty deck damage and another could be for winning due to an enemy's own ability (like Blood Frenzy). It would make matches super fun even if it just against AI.
    It is a very popular idea

  6. #26
    Senior Member igornvidal's Avatar
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    I'm really a fan of the achievement system and am very pleased with the level of discussion here. I think whatever kind of hero ranking should be time dependent as so the rewards, like one reward for the achievement itself, like making it into top 5 and then a gold silver or bronze colored border while you stay there. And taken, once your last 30 games scores become insufficient for that rank.

    More than that, i do really support any kind of stat tracking. I played for over years now and all I know is my current lvl. I wish I knew more and I could compare to others and that would be used on tournament feeding or anything else.


    All this interests me very much and I am myself a stat guy, too. So I could help if needed.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member igornvidal's Avatar
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    As for the actual rewards, there can be cards, foils, booster packs and 100 crystals to pay for tournaments when they go live. I'm thinking of the mtg tournament system for which you have to pay some tournament tickets worth a dollar each ( like 100 crystals). And so getting the rewards either through single player or campaign or qm would eventually help to fund and popularize the inbuilt tournaments. Or maybe I'm getting too off topic now.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member ShrapnelFox's Avatar
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    Hearthstone (TCG by Blizzard) have recently released their own campaign mode and unsurprising have employed a number of 'design techniques' discussed in the original post.
    Difficulty - A standard and heroic difficulty level
    Variable Gameplay - Playing with 'pre-crafted' decks. "heroes" with new "abilities"
    Duration - Segmented release of campaign each week. (Downfall - Each segment can be completed in a very short time frame and has very limited re-playability)
    Reward - Reward cards for completing each 'mission'. Variable Gameplay unlocked by completing campaign in normal mode, etc.
    Story Line - Minimal background story in-game. No story line during the campaign. *As mentioned, it's not essential*

    The Hearthstone campaign is released in segments each week. What is a great business idea they've implemented, that I hadn't incorporated into my analysis, is a fee for unlocking each segment. Players have the option of purchasing/unlocking each campaign segment with gold (maintaining the "free-to-play model) or can spend money (shadow crystals in Shadow Era). The first segment being FREE to hook the players, so they are interested in procuring the next segments. This business model could potentially be adopted by Wulven to inject additional funds, from players who have no interest in 'grinding' for gold.

  9. #29
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    Listen up to your player base shadow era!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Demigod's Avatar
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    Good business analisys! Fox im actually studying to do your job or similari (business process engineering - expert in database technology)

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