Embers of the just and forgiveness nerfed?

[Summoned Weapon]

Forgiveness use 2resource and get back bottom card and 1 resource except it only works sometimes!!!! Very annoying as I don't get back the one resource half the time I do half I don't.... Embers of the just. Every time I use it twice in a round it gos back to my hand instead of dealing the 4 damage after attachment removal ... What is going on? Does anybody know something I don't know?

[DNAlx]

Strange - I've never had that problem with Embers. Are you targeting Embers with Jericho? If you remove Embers with Mass Purification or Mystic of the Vale it doesn't deal damage.

I've also never had Forgiveness not work. Not sure what's going on.

[Kylt]

Forgiveness had not been changed, but the rule for resources has. I'm waiting for an announcement for this from the DT.

[pjoe0211]

forgiveness was technically not working correctly before, when they fixed shiek, they also changed forgiveness.

[Summoned Weapon]

Strange - I've never had that problem with Embers. Are you targeting Embers with Jericho? If you remove Embers with Mass Purification or Mystic of the Vale it doesn't deal damage.

I've also never had Forgiveness not work. Not sure what's going on.

Yes Jericho I use disrupt aura on embers and it works sometimes

[Hrinkell]

Embers of the Just spelling is specific and clear: "... If Embers of the Just is targeted and destroyed on your turn..."
Disrupt Aura - "Target attachment is returned to its owner's hand..."

So, Disrupt aura should NOT trigger Embers' damage part.

For the original question (triggering whenever used correctly many times in a turn), I have tested myself vs the AI and it works perfectly:
- Cast Embers of the Just
- Target and destroy with Eriss' ability and deal 4 damage
- Cast again
- Target and destroy with Sever Ties, deal 4 damage
- Cast a third time
- Target and destroy with Jericho, deal 4 damage

No problem for me.

[Kylt]

forgiveness was technically not working correctly before, when they fixed shiek, they also changed forgiveness.

It was working correctly.

Before SF
Resource was used from the bottom of the resource pile.
Resource destruction effect destroyed the bottom card of the pile.
Resource gain effect added unused resource card on top of the pile. (Forgiveness and presumably Stop Thief! as well)

So you would have spent 1 resource to cast SoV, and the used 1 res to cast SoV was destroyed.

Forgiveness in DP was;
1. You spend 2 res to cast forgiveness (e.g. 3/5)
2. It takes away the bottom card which was used to cast forgiveness (3/4)
3. You gain 1 unused resource on top of the pile (4/5)


After SF
Resource is spent from the top of your resource pile.
Resource destruction destroys top card of your resource pile.
Resource gain adds 1 unused res on top of the pile

So you use 1 res from the top to cast SoV, and the used res is taken away.

Under this newly made rule;
1.You spend 2 res to cast forgiveness (e.g. 3/5)
2. It takes away the bottom card which was not spent to cast forgiveness (2/4)
3. It adds 1 unused on top of the pile (3/5)

This means that if you cast forgiveness when you have 2 resource, spend 2 (0/2), take one (0/1) and gain 1 (1/2).



I assume the reason they changed the rule for how resources are spent was to make it more intuitive with physical cards play. Other than that, there was no reason to change the rule, "nerfing" forgiveness as a result.

SoV was working correctly, so it was not a fix. Other cards that involves destroying and gaining resource were working perfectly fine under a consistent rule.

I have said this in PFG, but I'm really sad to see cards gets weaker due to changes to the rules. More so when rule change was not consulted to the community, unlike Jasmine's charm case. On top of that, Wulven has not announced this change to the community as far as I know.

[Gondorian]

It was working correctly.

Before SF
Resource was used from the bottom of the resource pile.
Resource destruction effect destroyed the bottom card of the pile.
Resource gain effect added unused resource card on top of the pile. (Forgiveness and presumably Stop Thief! as well)

So you would have spent 1 resource to cast SoV, and the used 1 res to cast SoV was destroyed.

Forgiveness in DP was;
1. You spend 2 res to cast forgiveness (e.g. 3/5)
2. It takes away the bottom card which was used to cast forgiveness (3/4)
3. You gain 1 unused resource on top of the pile (4/5)


After SF
Resource is spent from the top of your resource pile.
Resource destruction destroys top card of your resource pile.
Resource gain adds 1 unused res on top of the pile

So you use 1 res from the top to cast SoV, and the used res is taken away.

Under this newly made rule;
1.You spend 2 res to cast forgiveness (e.g. 3/5)
2. It takes away the bottom card which was not spent to cast forgiveness (2/4)
3. It adds 1 unused on top of the pile (3/5)

This means that if you cast forgiveness when you have 2 resource, spend 2 (0/2), take one (0/1) and gain 1 (1/2).



I assume the reason they changed the rule for how resources are spent was to make it more intuitive with physical cards play. Other than that, there was no reason to change the rule, "nerfing" forgiveness as a result.

SoV was working correctly, so it was not a fix. Other cards that involves destroying and gaining resource were working perfectly fine under a consistent rule.

I have said this in PFG, but I'm really sad to see cards gets weaker due to changes to the rules. More so when rule change was not consulted to the community, unlike Jasmine's charm case. On top of that, Wulven has not announced this change to the community as far as I know.

Resource gain/renew/spending/destruction was made consistent for the good of the game.

As a result of the inconsistency, Forgiveness was previously benefitting from unintended gain of 1 unspent resource. Now it isn't and that's sad for people who liked it before but we had to make things consistent.

[mcley]

Resource gain/renew/spending/destruction was made consistent for the good of the game.

As a result of the inconsistency, Forgiveness was previously benefitting from unintended gain of 1 unspent resource. Now it isn't and that's sad for people who liked it before but we had to make things consistent.

But when you cast Forgiveness at 2 res remaining e.g. 2/5, you will end up with 1/5.
Why?...

[Boombasticks]

Forgiveness use 2resource and get back bottom card and 1 resource except it only works sometimes!!!! Very annoying as I don't get back the one resource half the time I do half I don't.... Embers of the just. Every time I use it twice in a round it gos back to my hand instead of dealing the 4 damage after attachment removal ... What is going on? Does anybody know something I don't know?

Same shit happened to me too. Forgiveness never gives back the resource recently tho I think it's still a good card.... Giving back 1 SE, for my semi solo Jericho is very useful, and I can easily decide which card to sacrifice the first few turns, which are those essential late game cards. But someone plz fix this... 1 res is very important in certain moments. Also I got some problems using ember too, the game sometimes just simply crashes after I retrieve my ember back and can't cast anything more, can't end turn neither. Sorry for the bad English, and It will help me out a lot if these problem are fixed.