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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrathOfCroft View Post
    Math Fox....what are the odds that they draw Birgette, and AW and Buc by t3?
    Lots of these stats are in earlier posts - in answer to your question, assuming going first (so drawing 8 cards by T3), and that there are 4 of each in a 39-card deck it's 24% - i.e. about one game in four.

    Method: drawing one target card from four available in a deck of 39 in 8 draws is 61.75% (from this page). Doing this 3 times = 0.6175^3 = 0.24

  2. #102
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I'm going to add an extra question:

    7) Ignoring AW, what are the other toughest allies (i.e. best stats, optionally including an ability) you can have on the field at the end of your T3 going first and going second?
    Elementalis going second on t3 can make Reactorary a 5/6. I think that is toughest it can get with only 1 card worth 3 resources and 3se.
    Last edited by Veles; 05-15-2014 at 11:52 AM.
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  3. #103
    Senior Member Pandevmonium's Avatar
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    I forgot to read the thread so far and now I get 11 pages... I guess I will skip most of them happily, the topic can get more constructive if we stop talking about Boomerang and Rain Delay.
    I think the problem is in Aramia's ability, which is undervalued and heavily rushy per se. We will no longer be able to see strange cards that become strong under certain conditions, aka combo cards, because Aramia can play them for free when she wants. So we have to deny some fun to tribes because Aramia makes them OP.

    1) What actually is the combo?
    Generally speaking, playing Aetherborn Wisp on empty board with a buff ready for next turn. Right now the most hated spot seems to be Birgette, Wisp, Glimmer/Factory.

    2) What happens after you have achieved the combo?
    You have a fatty covered by a protector that can attack on turn 3, and the ability to grow further. So you can pound your opponent's board on early game whil you drop other allies, sometimes even at free cost like buccaneer.

    3) What is the probability of getting all the parts of the combo in time?
    Please calculate it for me.

    4) What really screws over the combo, even if the combo goes off perfectly due to 100% lucky auto-pilot playing?
    Double ally control card, Amber's weapon + CB, Fire Snake + Mindless Ferocity going first, opposing Aramia Wisp going first. But some of them are quite unlikely or may come too late.

    5) What is the opponent usually doing while the combo is being set up? Do they play allies/armor/abilities?
    I have no idea, I still have to try the devil's combo. I don't think it actually matters a lot according to what's written into this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjoe0211 View Post
    like i siad, i think the 2 best resources for this card/deck would be myself or sam2death, if you want to discuss it, let me know, but i would prefer to not break my deck down for everyone atm
    Yeah, let's leave balancing to pjoe and Sam, the game will benefit from it LOL

  4. #104
    Senior Member WrathOfCroft's Avatar
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    Samyou2d3ath has moved on from Aramia..lets start a thread to hate on his 60 cards Solo Jeri!
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  5. #105
    Senior Member A1 Otto7's Avatar
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    I dont get it. If Aramia or wisp (whatever of the 2) is OP then there must be a streak proving it. If there isnt a streak then it is just NPE. I mean it doesnt effect the final win percentage towards innormal numbers but it does make the wins u get a bad experience for opp. Same like Resource Denial, Elemental buffs, Elad rush etc

    Nothing needed done here imo until an incredible win lercentage shows up
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1 Otto7 View Post
    I dont get it. If Aramia or wisp (whatever of the 2) is OP then there must be a streak proving it. If there isnt a streak then it is just NPE. I mean it doesnt effect the final win percentage towards innormal numbers but it does make the wins u get a bad experience for opp. Same like Resource Denial, Elemental buffs, Elad rush etc

    Nothing needed done here imo until an incredible win lercentage shows up
    I disagree with this.

    Even if the combo does not win loads of games (because it "only" comes up one game in four), there is a more fundamental problem, that i have outlined before.

    I don't think the game should have moderately-likely scenarios that you cannot overcome. And i don't mean "cannot overcome with the cards in your hand or deck", that's down to poor card choice. I mean "cannot overcome at all, even with different cards". There are several classes that literally cannot defend against the combo we are describing.*

    It's one thing to lose to What Big Teeth because you forgot to bring item destruction; it's another to lose to AW when there is *absolutely nothing you could have done*, even if this only happens once in a while. And when it happens to you, it feels incredibly unfair and (importantly) not at all like a game (the definition of which includes the ability to contest the outcome)

    *without resorting to Boomerang, as Gondorian has helpfully pointed out.

  7. #107
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    You can't expect to deal with every combo every time. That's just ridiculous.

    Sometimes people need to realize that their opponent just drew a better hand/cards than them. Regardless of how helpless you feel, this is a part of every TCG.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkon View Post
    You can't expect to deal with every combo every time. That's just ridiculous.

    Sometimes people need to realize that their opponent just drew a better hand/cards than them. Regardless of how helpless you feel, this is a part of every TCG.
    I think you've mis-understood.

    I'm explicitly not saying that you should expect to deal with every combo, every time.

    I am saying that you should be able, in theory, to deal with any combo if you put the right cards in your deck and draw them. There is an important difference.

    See, for example, my comment on What Big Teeth. If you didn't pack item destruction, you can't deal with it - but that's fine because you *could have* packed item destruction - it is available in some form to every deck. Whereas with AW, for certain classes *there is nothing you could have done differently* (including different deck / draw) that can stop the combo.

    Therefore this combo acts, in some instances, as a lock. You are right that some CCGs have this situation; my understanding is that SE is supposed to avoid locks (Gondorian can confirm?), and it would seem that this rule has (inadvertantly) been broken with this combo against certain classes.

  9. #109
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorJacobs View Post
    I am saying that you should be able, in theory, to deal with any combo if you put the right cards in your deck and draw them. There is an important difference.
    Sure. But there are suitable "right" cards that deal with it.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Rivozzz's Avatar
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    i Think the decision has been not to touch the wisp, and we are in the phase we are trying to make people accept the fact

    And it seems, That Gondorion (who i truly respect for his great effort in SE) only responds in the whole thread to people who are saying good stuff about wisp, but people which are saying it is broken and saying why, either they are ignored, judged as non constructive or re asked again why it is OP, as if they didnt say anything, so that they from boredom, just decide no to continue..

    The thing is, Whatever we do, we have to accept that a madly powerful creature with just a cost of 2 cc cardcan grow infinitely and extremely fast to neary end the game by t4 or T5, and if you escaped the death, you are in a state of near death, waiting for some spell finisher

    This is totally unrealistic, Never a card which cost 2 cc whether it COI or carnboar, can increase in its power and HP so crazy and behind a protector..
    A cap was put on COI and carnbboar doest have a protector ( unless you play the useless heroes Logan and Ter aden)

    But now we are breaking laws, and a 2cc card is rendered normal, to grow even faster THAN A UNIQUE 6 CC CARD which is OLGTH...

    People are saying really funny thing,, like control cards...
    1st: not all fractions has low 2 cc control cards
    2nd: if they got a 2 cc control card, they have to deal with protector or even multiple protector
    3rd : third you jave to deal with wisp

    So what actually you have to do to overcome??
    1st: Armaia player should be very unlucky
    2nd: You have to play a fraction which has low cc control cards
    3rd: you have to be lucky to have these control cards early in the game in your starting hand
    4th: you have to have mulltiple control, because you have to deal with protector first
    5th: after you deal with one or 2 protector, you have to deal with wisp
    6th: you have to deal with one or 2 buccaner
    7th: you have to make all this before T5, or you will be massively damaged

    Again not all heros has control cards
    EVEN warrior cant control it, because, to cast CB you have a protector, it wont touch AW,,, Or wait, you have to have both CP and retreat, to retreat the prtector and CP wisp...
    A better answer just rage quit

    the solution

    Remember my words, AW will not be touched whatever you say, even if you made million posts..but we as a community will also react...
    Like in out tournaments, we will Say MILLSTAKER AND ARAMIA are Banned
    At least that is much easier way to deal with this severe persistence to make a blind eye and trying to force this insane powerfull 2cc against most of community
    Last edited by Rivozzz; 05-15-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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