[VAT] 20% on total order.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

[evilxyardxgnome]

Never said you didn't have the right to respond, but you can respond more appropriately. Btw, sensitive or not its more about being polite and well... not rude (two posts in you brought up his English speaking skills (which seemed fine to me) which were irrelevant to bring up, I'd chock that up as rude). Anyways I suppose we're getting a bit off topic now, I just would rather it be a real discussion without needless insults (and that goes for everyone really). (

Agreed, I forgot I included that. It was rude of my and I apologize for that.

[bytas]

THEY ARE NOT SENDING YOU A FREE BOX. For the love of god you got $57 to spend on WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in the store. The only exception is you have to PAY FOR SHIPPING. Holy crap it's like talking to a wall.

ACTUALLY THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO!
Here is the statement we got mailed to by wulven, and I quote:

It's with a heavy heart today that I must finally admit defeat in the scandal over physical bonuses to people that preordered.
Although the card sleeves were finally produced thanks to sub-contracting Cartamundi, the playmats, tokens and collector's tins had numerous manufacturing delays through companies in China. Although we paid a deposit and were given start dates, they constantly failed to deliver on those dates and things got pushed back again and again. After finally canceling the orders and attempting to restart the process by contracting through more reputable companies, the product samples we ordered have been stuck in Vietnam customs for almost two months now due to increased import controls. Again, even a ballpark date when the items can be manufactured and delivered is completely unknown.

The physical world is new and uncertain to us, and we've learned a lot about what went right and what went wrong. The greatest pain is that we couldn't provide updates during this waiting period, as we didn't have any new information to give. It made a lot of people unhappy, and angry that they didn't get what they were promised. Although we've tried to add more and more bonuses, such as the exclusive digital sleeves, that still didn't solve the problem.

So today I have to finally say that enough is enough. We can no longer put the reputation of our company at the mercy of third party manufacturers. It's for this reason that an exchange has to be made on the promises of playmats, tokens and collector's tins. Instead, you will be shipped the premium Zaladaricon card sleeves and a free Dark Prophecies booster box - a $65 value - when they are produced early next year.

I can only hope that you all sympathize with our position on this, and accept the exchange that we're forced to make. Thanks for your support and incredible patience!

TL;DR - we had to cancel the playmats, tokens and collector's tins. But you'll get a free Dark Prophecies booster box instead!

Note: The people that preordered the Epic Collection and Complete Playsets will still get their limited edition playmats.


Best regards,

Kyle Poole
Wulven Game Studios
http://www.wulven.com

No where in this statement is there any talk about an online store, codes, shipping or taxes.
It is like they say: "we had to cancel the playmats, tokens and collector's tins. But you'll get a free Dark Prophecies booster box instead!"
It's funny to read this e-mail again actually because it was written in 2012 and they promised DP would ship early next year (2013).
"Oh hey, only 12 months late, 365days of delay is awesome! freaking nice work there!" -_-

The only wall in this conversation is you at the moment, because you (who conveniently got exactly what you wanted with no extra cost), can't see the injustice of the treatment the rest of the world is getting.

I'm not giving up on the game, and nothing you said so far changed my mind about the stance I'm taking here. Wulven lied to us and is treating us like crap to the point where I'm quite confident we would have a fairly good case if we would like to go to court on this. If you think that i'm the only disgruntled customer here, open your eyes and look around you, because you clearly have no knowledge what so ever about the scandals that have been going on here for 2 years now. The physical game has been a nightmare since the start and if you want to deny that you are out of your mind.

I'm also filled with disbelief over the fact that you accuse me of believing I'm 'entitled' to more than everyone else and then go on to say i should move to the USA if I want to be treated the same way you guys are. REALLY? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? XD
Are you sure it's not you that thinks Americans are entitled to a better treatment than the rest of the world?

I believe i am entitled to exctly what was promised to me, either the bonuses or the FREE box as a compensation.
If i wanted to be a hardass right now, i could be stubborn and start demanding the bonuses, because as far as i know i paid for them and i should receive that poduct or get a refund. I put trust in Wulven to use my money like they said they would and deliver the products i was PROMISED. They took my trust and dragged it trough the mud. However, just like most of us here, the free box as compensation seemed like a good and elegant way to solve the problem, so i'm willing to go with that. What bothers me most now is that wulven even managed to screw up the simple idea of sending everyone a free box.

As i said, you feel like talking to a wall because nothing you said makes any indents in my beliefs. I still think the situation is unacceptable, and i want it to be fixed accordingly. I don't care that orders i place in the online store require me to pay shippingcosts and taxes (if i would ever place an order myself, i happily will), I was promised a free box on my doorstep as compensation and that is what i should get.
I participated in the DP preorder as well and paid the shippingcosts there without arguing (there was no VAT tax there, one more reason why i don't understand all of a sudden the online store must have VAT tax)
Wulven was able to send free boxes for everyone that asked for a CotC boosterbox instead of a DP one, regardless of where you lived, and it makes no sense that all of a sudden that same process could not be used for the DP ones because there is different print on the cards.
I'm angry, and i think my anger is justified.

Have a good day sir.

EDIT: Apology about the English accepted btw.

[evilxyardxgnome]

Ughhh again, you didn't pay for the bonuses, you paid for whatever you bought during the CotC. If you didn't get what you paid for than you have the right to complain. Kyle gave everyone an opportunity to get a refund so if you felt screwed 2 years ago you could have gotten your money back. Yes I like most people backed the kickstarter with hopes of the bonuses that we didn't recieve and Kyle apologized for that. He did say we would get a free DO box when they were released and we got enough store credit to purchase said box. Your country like Kyle said requires a VAT tax to be paid. This might have been overlooked furing the CotC release and they might have paid it themselves, who knows. Either way you need to pay for shipping, unless you want to travel and pick it up yourself. It sucks that you have to pay shipping twice but it's two separate packages so two separate shipping payments. Also I've been lurking the forums for awhile now waiting for news on shipments and you are the only person having an issue.

[miloboy]

The Vat issue - yes he's only one.
The shipping issue - No . There're a lot of complain.

[Raphael Majere]

just my 2 cents, a fair word from my POV:

before i start, just keep in mind the concept of "Customer's expectations vs Seller's expectations of the Customer"

It's funny to read this e-mail again actually because it was written in 2012 and they promised DP would ship early next year (2013).
"Oh hey, only 12 months late, 365days of delay is awesome! freaking nice work there!" -_-

There are some grounds for complaint there. For many people, 1 year of waiting is pretty unacceptable. We are talking about the real world here: with real life online retail experience with other online stores and making customers wait for 1 year is considered unacceptable to some people. I am not saying who is right or wrong here: just stating that RL customers have RL relative expectations.

(Edit by raph: I had to only highlight the important parts for TL; DR purposes)

If i wanted to be a hardass right now, i could be stubborn and start demanding the bonuses, because as far as i know i paid for them and i should receive that poduct or get a refund. I put trust in Wulven to use my money like they said they would and deliver the products i was PROMISED.

They took my trust and dragged it trough the mud. However, just like most of us here, the free box as compensation seemed like a good and elegant way to solve the problem, so i'm willing to go with that. What bothers me most now is that wulven even managed to screw up the simple idea of sending everyone a free box.

I still think the situation is unacceptable, and i want it to be fixed accordingly. I don't care that orders i place in the online store require me to pay shipping costs and taxes (if i would ever place an order myself, i happily will), I was promised a free box on my doorstep as compensation and that is what i should get. I participated in the DP preorder as well and paid the shipping costs there without arguing (there was no VAT tax there, one more reason why i don't understand all of a sudden the online store must have VAT tax)

Wulven was able to send free boxes for everyone that asked for a CotC boosterbox instead of a DP one, regardless of where you lived, and it makes no sense that all of a sudden that same process could not be used for the DP ones because there is different print on the cards.
I'm angry, and i think my anger is justified.

firstly, you can't demand for the bonuses: because as evilxyardxgnome said, the bonus are free and hence you can't sue wulven.

Secondly, the best sentence by bytas is this: "They took my trust and dragged it trough the mud."

Many people don't post here at the forums but that does not mean that people have not emailed/PM wulven or maybe a large proportion of people already cancelled their DP/Cotc order quietly. Some people are just not vocal.



Some people do not know what the fuss is about regarding cotc bonuses so just refer to that pic above.

My personal major unhappiness with the whole cotc bonuses issue: Many customer paid and bought the pre-order BECAUSE of the bonuses. and some of these bonuses are critical IMO: playmats, counters and tokens are NEEDED for the game. (I have mentioned this before: since I am an avid physical card player: many 'additional items' are needed to play SE properly.)

Again, we are going back to this: "Customer's expectations vs Seller's expectations of the Customer": if yugioh, pokemon, WoW, MtG were able to manufacture these items (yes, deck tins too!), customers expected wulven to be able to do so too. It was not an out-of-this-world expectation by the customer. I personally DON'T want the 'replacement' Booster box due to failure to manufacture the tokens, counters, playmats; I NEED those items to play the game! And even so.... the so-called replacement 'DP' booster box has not arrived for many COTC pre-order customers. They have waited almost TWO years....

That's why Tom Vasel has this vid and he knows his stuff; I don't agree with all his points but he does raise some valid ones:



I like the physical SE game and hence I tried to reduce the impact of Tom's damage by listing my personal accessories to help fellow physical card players: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....-Physical-game

[evilxyardxgnome]

I was really hoping for tokens mainly because I had hoped Wulven had a good solution for physical gameplay. Each player needs about 20 dice it seems just to keep track of everything.

[Shadow Era]

This thread has gotten way out of control, discussing things that are not open for debate such as VAT and wandering into other issues such as preorders and free bonuses that have already been gone over at length. If you have any concerns about our policies, please email sales@wulven.com directly.