Ter Adun and his Ravagers

[AnomalousT]

EDIT: Lot's of ravager cards got buffed, which changes a lot of things.

So go grab some popcorn because I've got a lot to say about the ravagers. (TL;DR I offer suggestions on how to fix the tribe at the bottom). So after playing around with all of the tribes, I fell in love with the ravagers, even if they are the worst tribe. . . Anyway here is the best all-ravagers deck I could make:

Ter Adun

3x Spitfire Hound
4x Cleric of the Asyn
4x Ravager Zealot
4x Murderous Hulk
3x Thriss Demolitionist

2x Smashing Blow
2x Enrage
4x Blood Frenzy
2x Bad Santa
3x Spiked Bolas Strike

2x Rothem's Visage
4x Rock of Ages
3x Thriss Almanac

So let's look at the positives first. The Rock of Ages + Murderous Hulk combo is sick. You can give Murdeous Hulk 4 attack and use his ability which has the potential to kill two 4 health allies or one 8 health ally. Pretty awesome. Thriss Demolitionist is such an awesome card. The fact that he can destroy items AND abilities makes him a threat for almost any deck. And lastly Cleric of the Asyn is your average 3/4. But if you destroy an item with Ter Adun's ability the same turn he becomes a 4/5 and still has the potential to grow much bigger. And then there's Thriss Almanac. While very situational and hard to use it does have the potential to turn the game around.

Now the negatives. Spitfire Hound is a terrible card. It's a much better sac T2 than play and his ability rarely comes into play. Rock of Ages and Murderous Hulk's abilities both target the ally with the lowest health, which renders Crippling Blow and Punisher's Gauntlet virtually useless. I don't see where Bloodstained Maruader fits in at all. Thriss Almanac is only helpful very late game (I mean very very late game). I'm not really wild about Spiked Bolas Strike. And the worst of all. This deck is totally dependent on your ability to play and destroy your own items. Now I would like to take a closer look at some of these negatives.

So the Ravagers have four main items: Rock of Ages, Thriss Almanac, Obelisk of Echoes, and Cleric's Mantle (Armor)

Rock of Ages
Wow, is this card awesome. Seriously. +2 attack on any ravager ally for only 1 resource? Sign me up. And this card works wonderfully with Murderous Hulk. This is my go to T2 drop. It lets me compete for the board T3 with Ravager Zealot if I'm going up against a rush, or give my T3 ally +2 attack T4. And I understand it's sustain: 1 HP, but it makes me beg for another draw for this deck. Blood Frenzy plus this means I'm usually taking 2 damage a turn. Enrage kind of fixes the problem, but no one is really running Attachment Destruction in the beta so. . . yeah. . .
EDIT: Sustain was removed so basically I have no problems with this card. It's pretty awesome.


Thriss Almanac
So this is a 3cc card with a sustain of 1 resource. It gives all friendly ravagers +1 attack and when it's destroyed it deals two damage to all opposing allies. But 1 resource a turn is a very steep price for an odd War Banner/Ice Storm card. It doesn't have the advantage of War Banner where you can just play it and kind of forget about it and it doesn't have the advantage of Ice Storm because even if you play it you have to figure out a way to destroy it (which can be really ugly if you only have 4 resources). The fact that you can use up all your resources to have this thing destroyed is just "cute." Usually you don't have that much control over how many resources you end up with and even if you do sometimes it involves playing the exact opposite cards you wanted to play. Plus 2 damage isn't really game changing (Furrion Terror is only a good card when you have Zal's ability or Baduruu's bow to finish something off).
EDIT: This card didn't change but with Obelisk of Echoes and Murderous Hulk ability's cost reduction, controlling your resources is much easier

Obelisk of Echoes
I don't really think this was meant for Ter Adun. I'd much rather use his ability and a couple of smashing blows. So this is for another class who wants to play with the ravagers. It has the potential to be like a Shriek of Vengeance that you can use twice, plus it's another potential item to destroy.
EDIT: This card is much, much more usable after the cost reduction and restriction of "4cc or less items" removal.

Cleric's Mantle
I think this would be better suited with a hero that has more access to direct damage or can buff weapons. It would be nice if you only had one ally out, but with this deck I'm usually trying to get as many allies out as possible.
EDIT: This card now removes negative affects, which can be very helpful. And makes this card much more reasonable to add in your deck.

Crippling Blow/Punisher's Gauntlets
These are a standard in any DP Ter Adun deck. But because the Murderous Hulk + Rock of Ages combo is so powerful, these cards become useless. So basically Murderous Hulk and/or Rock of Age's ability usually deals damage to the allies with 0 attack or crippling blow. This happens because when the "ally with the lowest health" is a tie, the ability will deal damage to the ally that was played first. . . which is usually the one you played crippling blow on. So unlike other warrior cards that have great synergy with Crippling Blow (Wild Berserker, Yari Marksman), the ravagers have almost no synergy with crippling blow.
EDIT: Crippling blow doesn't become the worst card now that Spitfire Hound can destroy them, but it still doesn't work very well.

Spiked Bolas Strike
This works much better with the whole "ally with the lowest health" issue. But without attachment recursion these become just okay and Ter Adun can't really take advantage of them like Vess can.

Spitfire Hound
First off this guy's only a 1/3, so playing him T2 is very rarely helpful. One of the only things to do early with this guy is a T2 Spitfire Hound, then a T3 Rock of Ages which can boost his attack up to 3. But this is only worthwhile if you draw both the Hound and Rock of Ages in your opening hand. His ability that allows you to destroy one of your own items and deal 3 damage (to an ally) makes him more of a late game guy. But the fact that he can only deal damage to an ally makes him worthless if your opponent doesn't have any allies on the board. So essentially he becomes a very situational late game card.
EDIT: He can now destroy friendly items AND abilities. Some people are using this to destroy rain delay, have yet to try this myself.

Cleric of the Asyn/Murderous Hulk/Thriss Demolitionist
I think all these allies are good and I don't think there's really anything wrong with them. But I would definitely like to see a 6cc Ravager Ally.

Ravager Zealot
I don't think this guy is awful, he just needs better items to destroy. 'Nuff said.

Bloodstained Maurader
Not sure how he fits in. It would be cool if the Ravagers had someone like Furrion Terror. Or maybe an ally when summoned deals one damage to friendly Ravager and deals two damage to an opposing ally. I don't know. Anything.

Shadow Energy
One of Ter Adun's main problems is his accumulation of Shadow Energy if your opponent doesn't play anything worth destroying. Punisher's Guantlets fixed that problem, but since it doesn't mesh well with the ravagers. . . Essentially, it's why I included Rothem's Visage but I don't really like that solution.

TL;DR

I think of the Ravagers as "Chaotic-Control." Destroy your own items, but get board presence. Here are the things that need to change IMO

*edited*

-I still think the ravagers need a solid T2 ally to drop.
-The ravagers need a draw like Sceuth Tombstone, or Scriptures of the Righteous. Now that rock of ages no longer has a sustain cost, this isn't as important, but a draw more akin to Raven's Gambit or Sac Lamb (but specifically for the ravagers) would be nice.
-Ter Adun needs a way to use his Shadow Energy that isn't punisher's gauntlets.
-Bloodstained Maurader has no synergy with the rest of the group. There needs to be a way of damaging your own allies (which might make Bloodstone Altar a viable card in a ravager deck)
-The ravagers aren't Aggro, I would consider them Control (maybe Control-Combo, I'm not entirely sure) but not Aggro, so there needs to be a 6cc or 7cc drop that goes well with the ravagers. Most games I actually go through most of my deck.
-The ravagers beg for item recursion or at least some type of Transmogrification Curse they can use on themselves.
-And lastly there needs to be more Chaos

And I thought of a card. What about something like an item that's "3se: Other friendly or opposing Random item is destroyed. Draw two cards."
How cool? Right? No? Whatever I like it.

[AnomalousT]

So I want to write down my initial reaction to the help a lot of ravager cards got. So a lot of the cards got changes here and there and I think it will really help them.

1. Rock of Ages lost it's sustain: 1hp. Yes! This is awesome. You have to rely on this card so much, that I thought the sustain was unfair. I'm glad it's gone.
2. Murderous Hulk's ability now costs 1, down from 2. It's small but a welcome buff to an already great card.
3. Obelisk of Echoes is only 1cc now. And it can destroy all items not just 4cc or less items. This is great. Now the ravagers have an okay T1 item drop and it makes me think Ter Adun will want to use this in his decks instead of smashing blow.
4. Cleric's Mantle now removes negative affects plus still attacks the hero. This is another welcome addition. I think one huge problem was how the Ravagers were too easily shut down, and this gives a way to fix that.
5. Spitfire Hound can now destroy friendly abilities in order to do 3 damage. I think this is a good addition. It might allow cards like Rain delay, Valient Defender, or Alert and Able to get more play in ravager decks. I'm not sure. But I'd still like to eventually see a good T2 ally drop, just as an option.

6. Thriss Almanac wasn't changed, but with the reduced cost of Obelisk and Murderous Hulk, it's much easier to control your resources. It's still a late game card, but I think it will be much easier to control when it get destroyed.

So I like the changes that were made. Regardless of any changes made in SF, I still think it'll take another expansion for all the pieces to come together, which is super disappointing. But there's only 6 ravager allies. Even though you're adding a bunch of items, I think more allies are needed. And I still think there needs to be a way for Ter Adun to use his excessive SE. But we're getting there. Definitely a lot of steps in the right direction.

[GabrielQ]

Don't you feel like spitfire hound was changed to synergyze with rain delay? I've seen some ter adun decks using rain delay + ter ability to give champions pseudo haste or to chain rain delay, and spitfire looks like it will add to that strategy.

[luminosg]

I've been trying to find a Ter Adun deck that is at least somewhat effective, and even with these changes, he lags behind a lot. He was weak in the DP meta. The SF meta is faster, and makes some strong heroes even stronger, and the net result is that Ter is left in a worse spot than he began in.

It really does come down to him having a very substandard ability. Rothem's Visage works well with him, but you can't control the board well enough to make him last long enough to get good use out of it. If I go for a Ravager deck, then I lose to any rush deck, period. If I go for a more well rounded allied deck, I lose the synergies and struggles against every matchup. He doesn't have the card pool to effectively go solo. I just can't seem to find a good fit for him.

As far as the Ravagers are concerned, they seem to be a little bit scattered in terms of synergies. Thriss demolitionist is amazing, and makes Ravagers almost viable, but the early game drops are so subpar that you really only want them because you need something to go with the demolistionist. Cleric of Asyn works well in a Ter deck, but he's just a vanilla ally that can grow. There are several growing allies, and most of them do it a lot better, or have an activated ability to help, or both. If the condition for his growth was that an item was destroyed, he'd be amazing, but as is he's pretty niche. Ravager Zealot is good in a Zaladar rush deck, pretty meh anywhere else. Murderous Hulk is nice.

[udy]

Cleric's Mantle
I think this would be better suited with a hero that has more access to direct damage or can buff weapons. It would be nice if you only had one ally out, but with this deck I'm usually trying to get as many allies out as possible.

Fates 167 Cleric’s Mantle : Ability changed to "1D: Target friendly Ravager ally has all negative effects removed, and that ally attacks a random opposing hero each time an item or ability is targeted and destroyed this turn, if able." From "1D: Target friendly Ravager ally attacks a random opposing hero each time an item or ability is targeted and destroyed this turn, if able."

What do u mean with the mantle being nice if u only have one ally out? does the mantle ablity cant be used when u got 2 or more allies out?

I do experiencing some issues with the mantle. After target and destroy an item in play, I use mantle on an exhausted ally but nothing happen.

I cant show u the replay since I play agains AI (its a very fresh new deck that would bothering ppl on qm if i used right away there )


edit: oh wait, after reread mantle's text. Should I activate the mantle first then target & destroy an item to get targeted ally automatic atk opponent hero.
But what all of that have to do with solo ally? since I target the hero.

edit2: yes that how I should do it... silly me Still, Ill wait ur confirmation about that solo ally advantage in using Cleric's Mantle

[AnomalousT]

Don't you feel like spitfire hound was changed to synergyze with rain delay? I've seen some ter adun decks using rain delay + ter ability to give champions pseudo haste or to chain rain delay, and spitfire looks like it will add to that strategy.

Yes I do, and I added it to the cards that can possibly go well with the ravagers. (I have not yet played with it myself to really see how much I like it).

What do u mean with the mantle being nice if u only have one ally out? does the mantle ablity cant be used when u got 2 or more allies out?

I do experiencing some issues with the mantle. After target and destroy an item in play, I use mantle on an exhausted ally but nothing happen.

I cant show u the replay since I play agains AI (its a very fresh new deck that would bothering ppl on qm if i used right away there )


edit: oh wait, after reread mantle's text. Should I activate the mantle first then target & destroy an item to get targeted ally automatic atk opponent hero.
But what all of that have to do with solo ally? since I target the hero.

edit2: yes that how I should do it... silly me Still, Ill wait ur confirmation about that solo ally advantage in using Cleric's Mantle

In most of the games I played, when I had an option between playing cleric's mantle or an ally. I chose to play an ally. Very often Cleric's Mantle just became an after thought like, "Well I don't have any other cards to play." IMO, board control is the most important aspect in this Ravager deck, and Cleric's Mantle just didn't help with that. So I thought that if you had fewer allies, cleric's mantle would become more valuable, because you would have to focus you're limited allies on your opponents allies, and you would never have the chance to attack the hero.

Okay I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly. Let's say you have two Cleric of the Asyn out. They're both a 4/5. If your opponent plays an aldon, you have one Cleric to kill the Aldon and one Cleric to damage the hero (which is what you have to do to win the game, duh! XD) So Cleric's Mantle is helpful, but not necessary. Now let's say I have only one 4/5 Cleric of the Asyn out. I kill the Aldon, but no one is there to damage the Hero. Well Cleric's Mantle could fill that role, thus increasing it's value when you only had one ally out.

That was my original thought process, but now with new buff of removing negative affects, I think it's a much more valuable card in general regardless of how many allies you have on the board

[udy]

That was my original thought process, but now with new buff of removing negative affects, I think it's a much more valuable card in general regardless of how many allies you have on the board

Yup, with a frozen/disabled Cleric of Asyn (or any other ravager) on play, u definitely want to play Cleric's Mantle

[Storknest]

Begining to see where the Ravager problems are now that I tried one. I tried using them in Raikka with the following deck.

Ravaging Raikka

4x Spitfire Hound
4x Bloodstained Marauder
4x Cleric of the Asyn
4x Murderous Hulk
2x Thriss Demolitionist

4x Tome of Knowledge
4x Incendiary Curse
3x Transmogrification Curse
3x Shadow Font / Sanctuary
4x Obelisk of Echoes

3x Blazing Shield

Based on a few matches played:

Spitfire Hound / Ravager Zealot
Both of these have the same issue even though I did not use the Zealot. They require destroying something of your own to use their ability, useful later on but not early. Plenty of other cc2 and cc3 allies out there without this handicap. It should also be mentioned Ravager Tribe has only 1 cc2 ally while all others have 2. I did not use Zealot for the same reason I don't like Haste on Deepwood Bobcat, the requirement of something being out there/played for the Haste to work.
Maybe if they could destroy any item/ability of their own cc or less.

Bloodstained Marauder
Maybe good for an Elemental deck using Shard of Power or some deck with a similar gimmick otherwise its ability is limited also.

The rest of the allies might be good, just did not get to really play or use them.

I figured I could use the 2 Curses for the low cc allies that need something to destroy but the combined cost makes it too little, too late. Obelisk is kinda odd, if drawn can be played early for the low cc allies but not always and early on that makes its ability useless.

Switched to Sanctuary since the Font was a waste.

At least I learned Blazing Shield is a good fit for Raikka.

I get the whole focus on item destruction in Ravager but it goes about in a very klunky way with gimmicks that do not work well. Overall, Ravager seems to have TOO much item destruction in it with early allies needing to nuke something of your own, in the early game that makes them rather useless, later you may want to be playing other cards. Perhaps it needs to have a card or two swap abilities with some other tribe.

[luminosg]

Bloodstained Marauder
Maybe good for an Elemental deck using Shard of Power or some deck with a similar gimmick otherwise its ability is limited also.

Just wanting to note that this probably won't work the way you think it does, since his ability only activates when he is damaged, not when his health is reduced (so Raven's gambit, Victor's ability, shard of Power, etc don't boost him)

[udy]

Just wanting to note that this probably won't work the way you think it does, since his ability only activates when he is damaged, not when his health is reduced (so Raven's gambit, Victor's ability, shard of Power, etc don't boost him)

If it work, Bloodstained Marauder + Mark of the Feared + Cleric's Mantle would be badass