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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shannong View Post
    I think the main problem with how it's proposed to work at this timestamp is simple:

    In other card games like MtG, when an opponent uses an ability that draws a random (or targeted) card from your deck, both players get to SEE what the card was. Right now, the client UI does not enable both players to SEE the card that Transferrence nabbed from the other deck. This is inherently unfair and way too powerful of a disruption, because so many tactical decisions rely on knowing what's still in your own deck.

    If you keep Transferrence working the way it is right now, you MUST modify the UI to display the card that is taken by it. To both players. Requiring a tap by both players before continuing the turn.
    I disagree. Your opponent not knowing what was taken is the ONLY thing that might make this playable at 3. The nerf was massive, giving your opponent the ability to see what you draw would put the final nail in its coffin.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Calmdown's Avatar
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    ITT: Elemental-only players upset that their OP cards are getting nerfed.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member shannong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygambit View Post
    I disagree. Your opponent not knowing what was taken is the ONLY thing that might make this playable at 3. The nerf was massive, giving your opponent the ability to see what you draw would put the final nail in its coffin.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. It would utterly wreck me to NOT know what card is now missing from the remaining cards in my deck. IMO that's MORE powerful than the 1.24 Transferrence! You can bet your ass this would a no-brainer 4x inclusion for every Elemental deck if it works like it works now on the test server. Way too powerful.

    Think about it: you're going to let me steal up to 4 cards from your deck and you'll never know what those cards were if I just resource them all? That's way OP in my favor. It's not a nerf to Transferrence; it's a boost.

    Stealing my cards still hurts. I no longer have access to them, especially since the new mechanics wouldn't give me a chance to Transferrence them back to me. Even if I know what card you took, it still hurts. The only nerf here would then be that you can't affect the tactical cards I'm already holding in my hand and planning how to use. Instead, you're just removing potentially useful cards from my card pool. It's still good enough to use in certain decks with certain paths to victory; it's just not as OP as before.
    Last edited by shannong; 04-07-2011 at 04:08 PM.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Killtrend's Avatar
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    Sigh. Nerfing a card once again. Why would I spend three resource and "sacrifice" my card to draw one of theirs?? It's like cycling in magic. Except I have to pay one more and draw a card from a deck that doesn't share my win condition or strategy. GENIUS!

    Garbage tier is spot on.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member N3rd4Christ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    Sigh. Nerfing a card once again. Why would I spend three resource and "sacrifice" my card to draw one of theirs?? It's like cycling in magic. Except I have to pay one more and draw a card from a deck that doesn't share my win condition or strategy. GENIUS!

    Garbage tier is spot on.

    I Agree Here.

    Everytime someone wines a card gets Nerfed. That happened to Mage Decks, now Elementals. Whats next Nerf Warriors?

    I understand changes are needed, but Takign a card from A must play card to no longer having a use is ridiculous. I play elementalis as my fun deck and Boris as my main deck.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member hongkong99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shannong View Post
    I think the main problem with how it's proposed to work at this timestamp is simple:

    In other card games like MtG, when an opponent uses an ability that draws a random (or targeted) card from your deck, both players get to SEE what the card was. Right now, the client UI does not enable both players to SEE the card that Transferrence nabbed from the other deck. This is inherently unfair and way too powerful of a disruption, because so many tactical decisions rely on knowing what's still in your own deck.

    If you keep Transferrence working the way it is right now, you MUST modify the UI to display the card that is taken by it. To both players. Requiring a tap by both players before continuing the turn.


    Agree, it makes more sense to me.

  7. #17
    Senior Member shannong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    Sigh. Nerfing a card once again. Why would I spend three resource and "sacrifice" my card to draw one of theirs?? It's like cycling in magic. Except I have to pay one more and draw a card from a deck that doesn't share my win condition or strategy. GENIUS!

    Garbage tier is spot on.
    Think of it like this: If your deck has a path to victory in 26 of its cards, then those 4x slots for the "new" Transferrence have the potential to disrupt or neuter your opponent's path to victory. That is not a zero-sum card exchange. It might be worth only 1 or 2 resource points instead of the current 3 points, but it's NOT a zero-sum transaction in terms of card advantage and possible paths to victory.

    This becomes even more potentially viable when we increase the deck size to 40 cards or more and you now have 36 (or more) cards in which to build a few paths to victory.

    Granted, Transferrence would no longer suit every Zaladar/Elementalis deck strategy like it does now, but there would be decks who could make this a useful part of their strategy.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Killtrend's Avatar
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    The key to transference was saving it yourself until they had a key card to use it on. Now you're making it more dumb luck, and saying it's better?? If they have 4 cards that they "need" for their win condition, then they still have three. If they have one, and I happen to grab it, oh well. Shouldn't have had one. That's like saying "sorry nova kills all your creatures. Those weren't part of your win condition were they? Oops"

    Give me a break! I was one of the ones who didn't start with transfer. Didn't use it until I was hounded. Now I resource 1-2 of them early and save them for tactical deployments. Now your telling me it's my new "cycling card" that can "disrupt their flow" and that it gets BETTER if they have more junk in their decks to steal? Are you high? Drunk? Please blow into this breathalyzer. Lol

    Oh well, I'll take it out for something else. Not a problem, but don't try to pat me on the butt and feed me a Santa Clause good time story. This is an outright nerf. The definition of it infact. Changing it's cost to 4 or removing it from the game after use is "balance"

    /rant
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  9. #19
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    It seems pretty weak.

    I think it might have some use in a slow Elementalis deck, though.

  10. #20
    Senior Member shannong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    The key to transference was saving it yourself until they had a key card to use it on. Now you're making it more dumb luck, and saying it's better?? If they have 4 cards that they "need" for their win condition, then they still have three. If they have one, and I happen to grab it, oh well. Shouldn't have had one. That's like saying "sorry nova kills all your creatures. Those weren't part of your win condition were they? Oops"

    Give me a break! I was one of the ones who didn't start with transfer. Didn't use it until I was hounded. Now I resource 1-2 of them early and save them for tactical deployments. Now your telling me it's my new "cycling card" that can "disrupt their flow" and that it gets BETTER if they have more junk in their decks to steal? Are you high? Drunk? Please blow into this breathalyzer. Lol

    Oh well, I'll take it out for something else. Not a problem, but don't try to pat me on the butt and feed me a Santa Clause good time story. This is an outright nerf. The definition of it infact. Changing it's cost to 4 or removing it from the game after use is "balance"

    /rant
    Before: you could use T tactically to steal what was *maybe* a key card from their hand by waiting until they had only 1 or 2 cards in their hand. Both of you knew what was taken. The other player might hate the loss of a card they really wanted to put into play soon, but because they knew what they lost, they could adapt. ALSO, smart players wouldn't hold onto a key card if they knew the opponent might draw a T. For example: should I use this Eternal Renewal RIGHT NOW even though I've got only 10 cards in my graveyard? Hell yes I should! If he manages to T it from me, I've just lost access to my recursion loop for good, and I'm sunk.

    Now: you can use T to remove potential key cards from your opponent's deck, then resource it so they have no idea what's gone missing. If they have only 2x of those cards in their deck to begin with, and those 2x were key to their winning condition (or at least strongly helps their winning condition), you have just screwed them royally. Say they set up a draw engine to get to that key card faster and... wait?... where the f**k is that damn card?

    IMO it's STRONGER now. You're not going to convince me otherwise, lol, so let's just agree to disagree, and Kyle's going to make the call.

    Granted, if you make the card that was stolen visible to both players, then it IS a significant nerf from before. Maybe too much of a nerf. But as it stands at this timestamp, it's essentally trading one type of OP for a different type of OP.
    Last edited by shannong; 04-07-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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