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  1. #1
    Senior Member Dave163's Avatar
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    The problem with Shadow Era expansions

    The problem is this... -the last expansion introduced so many new cards that the game effectively changed beyond all recognition. All the old strategies are instantly resigned to the dustbin and all that time spent developing these tactics are wasted (-this may be a sweeping generalization, but I believe that it holds true in most cases -the one major exception being Darkclaw). The experienced player finds themselves teleported back to square one... -instant 'noobage'.

    Of Course Wulven need to keep expanding and introducing new content, but if the devs concentrated on releasing new hero classes (along with their unique allies, weapons, and support cards), the existing lines would remain largely unaffected. I might be wrong but it would also make the balancing process a lot easier?
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    DP Visionary Mongoosey's Avatar
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    Mmm. Even if this was true...whats wrong with that?
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    Senior Member Dave163's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoosey View Post
    Mmm. Even if this was true...whats wrong with that?
    "...All the old strategies are instantly resigned to the dustbin and all that time spent developing these tactics are wasted. The experienced player finds themselves teleported back to square one... -instant 'noobage'..."


    -if you're the type of player that builds their decks by 'Googling', its probably an issue that doesn't affect you...
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    Senior Member Elunatic's Avatar
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    So the game was somehow better when some heroes like Baduruu were completely terrible compared to others? New expansions give weaker heroes the boosts they need (ex: Logan with Killing Spree) and stronger heroes new tools to work with (ex: Boris with Dragon's Tooth, Darkclaw with Blood Moon, etc). Adding more hero types later on would be interesting, but it'd overcomplicate things, and it would shift the focus from balancing the hero types we already have to bringing in more new rules. Besides, I highly doubt the experienced players would be reduced to "instant noobage"; they'd be more able to apply the knowledge they've already gained by playing the game to each expansion to see which cards would be most useful for each hero, or for each deck, than a true noob.

    Overall, I guess you could say it's a question of whether we want more heroes and the potentially-different playstyles that come with (a wide but shallow game) or if we want the existing heroes to get their new tools and boosts as needed (a smaller but deeper game). Personally I'd prefer the latter, but whatever boats your float.

    PS: "Googling" decks isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's more useful for newer players in particular, to help them get a decent deck to get them more into the game, but it also has its uses for older players, who may want to try mastering a new hero; once they've learned the nuances of that particular hero, they can proceed to build and tweak their own deck.

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    DP Visionary Mongoosey's Avatar
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    Not sure i spend a lot of time googling decks.

    Guess it comes down to definition of 'experienced' player. An experienced player is one that can embrace the changes, and still be good. Player that's been playing a long time and can't adapt....well, that's just a bad player.
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    I've never experienced this as a problem nor that I've had difficult to learn the new cards. Is this your first TCG? Because 150 new cards is pretty small numbered compared to others out there.

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    Senior Member Dave163's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elunatic View Post
    So the game was somehow better when some heroes like Baduruu were completely terrible compared to others? .
    Thanks for the (intelligent) feedback, but... ofc Im not suggesting that balancing issues shouldn't be addressed (where do I say that?). If you take the old Baduruu as an example -you could have made him significantly stronger with the introduction of a single (OP) weapon. Leaving the existing classes largely intact allows you to address any of the old balance issues with a couple of new cards- and allows you to concentrate on balancing the newly introduced classes (using the old classes as a stable marker) -thats what I mean by "it would also make the balancing process a lot easier".

    Im all for 'making the game deeper' (adding to the existing lines) -but there are more than one ways to skin a cat (slowly phasing in cards over time etc). Dropping 100+ new cards into the game all at once is like cracking a walnut with a nuclear bomb. That aside, if it came down to 'deeper' or 'wider'... personally I'd rather it was wider and the core game mechanics for each hero were kept the same.


    It would be interesting to see what % of veteran players stopped playing the game after the last expansion?
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    Senior Member Pandevmonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave163 View Post
    It would be interesting to see what % of veteran players stopped playing the game after the last expansion?
    Probably less than ones who stopped playing because they wanted even more expansions.
    I don't understand how Dark Prophecies could have changed so much the gameplay of Shadow Era. Ok, they are 150 new cards but many of them are there just to fill 150 slots so you can't even consider them.
    And if you don't keep adding new cards and new strategies into the game it would quickly become stale and boring.
    Good players will still remain good players, a single expansion doesn't matter. If you prefer learn one deck per hero and be fine with that for the rest of your SE experience I think we just have a different concept of experienced player. Nothing wrong with that, but if this game throws new cards and challenges to us here and there it can't be that bad.

  9. #9
    Regionals Runner Up kentuequi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave163 View Post

    It would be interesting to see what % of veteran players stopped playing the game after the last expansion?
    IMO that would be useless, veteran players don't quit a game because of new patch (most of them stay thanks to it), but because during the few years they played, something changed in their life, and they haven't time for this anymore.

    Also i woulld say, it would be interesting to see what % of veteran players came back to the game after the last expansion?
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  10. #10
    DP Visionary Warr Byrd's Avatar
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    Magic: The Gathering, the TCG to which all other TCGs are compared, releases a 250 card base set every year, along with three expansions ranging from 150 cards to over 400. World of Warcraft, the TCG most similar to Shadow Era in terms of mechanics, releases three sets a year of about 200 cards apiece. Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon also release multiple sets per year, most of them larger than 150 cards. If a card game isn't releasing cards at that rate, it is generally considered to be dead.

    Now, Shadow Era is somewhat different in that the digital format does allow you to release fewer cards more frequently, but then you run into the same "problem" that you run into with the large infrequent sets - some people can't adapt to the new cards.

    Also, and this is definitely just my opinion, but releasing more classes would actually make it harder to balance, because each new class would have to be balanced with all of the previous classes, while still being different enough that there's a reason to play them rather than one of the original classes. The addition of just one or two OP cards can skew the balance of the entire game, since each class has fewer possibilities. On the other hand, expanding the existing classes is easier because there is already a balance base line, and there is a much wider pool of cards available to counter the possibly OP cards of anther class.
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