Wulven Apprentice - Task 2 - Voting and Results

[Gondorian]

Hi everyone. After the first firing at the end of week 1, the nine remaining candidates embarked on their second task a week ago, in the same teams, and finished yesterday. I'm pleased to now share details of that task they were set and what each team has produced.


Task 2 Details

Task: Select an existing class and work together in your team to design a new hero and 10 cards for that class. You must adhere to the following constraints:

1. The class must be one of the existing seven classes.
2. The hero must have an ability activated with between 3 and 5 shadow energy.
3. The class cards can be of any existing type apart from hero (i.e. ally, ability, support ability, attachment, armor, weapon, artifact, trap).
4. The class cards should be distributed as 1 Rare, 3 Uncommon, 6 Common.
5. At least 3 cards should be designed to aid your new hero specifically.
6. You may introduce at most two new mechanics/keywords.
7. No new card should be strictly better than an existing card for the same class.

External help: No external help is allowed, although you do not need to do your own artwork. You can select any existing unlicensed work to use on your cards, providing you give credit to the artist and the artist has not explicitly stated you are not allowed to use their work.

Format: Ideally, you will mock up cards to look like Shadow Era cards. Wulven can give you assistance with this, but towards the end of the task. Start out with simple text version.

Reason: Shows off organisation, co-ordination, understanding a class, card design and balancing, art selection, creativity, confidentiality, attention to detail, standards of quality. What is produced could end up valuable beyond the contest, and make it into a future set!

Confidentiality: This task will not be revealed to the public until you are finished producing your cards, so please keep the task confidential. People will then view your cards and vote for which team they think did the best.

Winner: 80% determined by public poll, 20% by Wulven judges.


Task 2 Submissions

Both teams submitted their card designs in text form, with links to artwork to be used. Wulven then produced the card images for them, based on what had been submitted verbatim (i.e. it's all been done as specified, with no wordings altered or anything else.)

Please check them out via the links below:

Nocturnal Advantage
(a.k.a. Team GMT-)
Caleb (Project Manager),
Sam, Sean, Tomm
View Their Cards Here


Random Heroes
(a.k.a. Team GMT+)
Steven (Project Manager),
Daryl, Jazz, Shawn, Stefano
View Their Cards Here

Task 2 Results?

The winning team will be determined mostly by public poll, which opens in 24 hours from the time of this post, and partially by judges at Wulven (80% and 20%, respectively). The judging should ideally be done based on the task that was assigned, but if you wish to use other criteria to choose your favorite then that's your call.

Voting will be open
Tuesday 12.30pm GMT to Thursday 9pm GMT
(Tapatalk users will need to visit the forum website to vote in the poll.)

Please feel free to use this thread to discuss any aspect of this task, but note that comments below will not affect the results. You will need to vote to affect the outcome.

[busti]

I give this without hesitation to random heroes.

feedback for nocturnal advantage:
The idea to create mill is a good idea but it doesnt feel balanced (as in, pretty much underpowered). Especially the rare cards which is a fatty with 3HP is a good example of good idea but unbalanced because it will never ever survive a turn. Another example is Mim ricard which is -incredibly- overcosted, you will in the end pay 5cc and 4SE to copy an ally, it must be a very good ally to be worth it
Another small point, mill cards should allow you to target yourself on top of opponent for allowing self milling even if there isn't yet any existing card for such ideas.

The ideas are very good though, and one card stands out for me, it's voidgut. It would maybe end up being too good, but it offers a ton of possibility.

Last point for this group, it feels like each person designed his own card, because in the explanations for each card, the use of the first person "i designed this card because lalala" "I felt like we needed such a card" etc, doesn't make me think of a team work!


feedback for random heroes:

This set of card is really amazing. It brings a lot of exitment and I even wish I could play them now; On top of that the cards seem to be balanced allready. One of the new mechanic is similar to a mechanic invented by the other group, however here it is 1- On a balanced monster and on a weapon (awesome idea to bring logan up) and 2- as an ability that can affect any other hero, and it synergize very well with the hero ability, making it way more exciting and brain teasing (I'm allready thinking of the combo I could make with all of them together).

The tokens are also a very sweet ideas that combo especially well with the hero and with the warrior pool of war banner and king's pride.



All in all I'm way more excited about the warrior cards and I think they are pretty balanced, I will vote for random heroes hands down.

[betrayal4life]

I don't see how everyone thinks a shadow hero that gives all his guys permanent +1/+1 is even close to balanced. When I saw their cards I did the same thing we did with ours proxy em all up and playtest. While most of their cards are balanced the hero is ridiculous. If these cards do see the light of day only 3 decks will see play. The shadow warrior deck they created, zhanna, and mage. Other deck archetypes wil be too weak to handle the fast onslaught and be forced to play stall cards making the game less open IMO.

[Airact]

I do like the idea behind both of them but I think both of them also went a bit too safe. I didn't really see a card in either design that would make me go "holy shit I want that card nao". Cassius Bile did come close but still no sugar.

I think overall the ideas were cool and I wouldn't mind seeing most of them in the game but I also think both teams wanted to have something to give the readers the "holy shit" -feeling, which at least I didn't really get so that could be a bit of a failure from both the teams.

I have to give my vote to the Warrior team. Their theme wasn't as clear as the Mill team's but I think their execution on the mechanical design and the overall quality of the cards was better.



I don't really see Cassius being that OP. The problem with Shadow Warriors was that their abilities didn't affect the board position that much or they could only conditionally affect the board position. I think Cassius, while his ability does seem strong (3 SE is kinda strong for that ability), also affects the board position (still a bit conditionally, but his ability is powerful to compensate). Let's see what he can do with it:


3/5 Gargoyle. Attacks for 3 which isn't the biggest deal. He survives a lot more sure but it's not a 4/5 Jas.
3/3 Karash. Harder to kill, murders 2ccs pretty hard but so does BB with his ability (which is actually less conditional than Cassius')
1/5 Death Mage. Eh, I mean sure I guess.
3/6 Disciple. This could become quite a dude.

And then there are the higher drops which could become threatening, or will just die to unconditional kill spells anyway.

It's strong but I would prefer some strong new stuff instead of unplayable new stuff. It will be playtested in any case if it will be even close of making it into the game but I don't think the ability will change that much. Maybe to 4SE (which would make the deck slower which will make me sad but I think that's the best way if it's too powerful.) but we'll see what happens.

[painful_smile]

Ok. To Noctual Advantage:
You have some great ideas but the problem is your submission lacks synergy and balance. Lots of cards are very underpowered.

I will go through some of the cards.
1. Xerius - mill 1 and 2 damage every 4 turns is just useless and I see no reason to play him over other Elemental decks.
2. Astral Calamity - 6cc ally with 4/3 stats is just not playable. Its too easy to kill for this cost. The ability is ok but I can promise you, without portal it will only rarely trigger, because he will just die every time he gets played.
3. Orb of Augury - this card reminds me of a card from yugioh. However I think in SE it just lacks synergy. Yes you can use this card to buff your ability by a bit (since you can decide what your opponent will discard. But why you make the cost in SE if you want to combine it with your ability. All in all its just too weak to see any use at all.

Some great ideas:
4. Forced Offering - I like the idea a lot.. but I feel its too weak and too cute.
5. Mim rickar - The idea is really really cool. This is prob the most exciting effect from both submissions. The problem is, the cost are tooooooo freaking high. Like wtf. 5cc and 4SE to copy an ally from your opponent. And not even remove it. Also he has to stand on the board for 1 turn before he can use the ability. Really? Idea good but its not playable imo.

Really positive is the card picture design. I can see them all fit into Elemental theme and like them a lot.

Ok now to Random heroes

Ok here is a lot more synergy and it just looks a lot better designed cardpool overall. The ideas on its own are not really special and there is no card where I would say-- holy that card is really special and new.. but well overall the submission is a lot more rounded and better imo.

Let me go through some of the cards:
1. Cassius Bile - The Hero ability does not really fit in the Warrior theme imo but it has a lot of synergy with the other new cards you submitted. I cannot judge the strength. With the new cards with Rapidstrike it might be too strong. but dunno.
2. Hydra's kiss - Well its a logan only weapon but yes.. its helping logan a lot. I like it.
3. Ulrich the rich - with ability you get a 4-4 for 2cc. Thats really great. The uniaue balances it a bit out. But yeah its not a bad card overall and has some synergy with cassuis bilke ability.
4. Braxnorian Enchantress - hm Yes. Tokan. I think the concept of tokan is really good and missing in SE. But I feel this card might be too strong if you combine that with the hero ability, kings pride and JD. You can swarm the deck too fast too easy with too much stuff.
5. Devout Guardian - Great idea. Reminds me a bit of the M&M DoC "Meele Guard" and "Range Guard" allies. Not sure if it fits in Warrior though. With Warrior you most often go for a offensive game. CB opponent allies, spamming the board with allies with the JD - BF combination and other stuff. Dunno this card looks like a Priest card imo. On the other hand it fits in the Lore of Warrior. dunno ;-)
6. Constription - I think this card is more a... well we have no more ideas so lets put nearly the same card into the game twice. For me its too close to Brax enchantress... and well I think this is your weakest designed card.
7. Battle Madness - I like this idea a lot. Its some counterpards to Sac lamb for human Warriors. You can suizide cribbled allies to your positive effect. All in all great card.

The picture design is also very good and fits in the Warrior theme a lot.


Conclusion:
I like the submission of Random heroes a lot more. It feels just better designed if you look at synergy and balance.
Noc. Advantage has some better induvidual ideas in the effects but since most of the cards are unplayable I have to go with Random Heroes.

[BetrayalFender]

so hasted 3/3's as soon as they come into play isn;'t bad?

What about when KP is out and they drop a hasted 2/2 and drop an ability? They can drop Conscription too and then have a 5/4 clear board and you get crushed by 3 5/4's? good luck coming back from that if you aren't mage or priest(elemental if discharge is played).

Encampment can be used as a non-stop tempo card once you attain early board. With CB and IK/Y.Scout, this is not very hard to do. oh, you mean i can pump out an ally every turn to make life hell. Also, you can pump out a token, and then immediately battle madness to take care of 90% of the current ally pool. all for a low price of 4 resources. And soldier of Fortune will get you a free token JUST for having him on the field. or a free CB. or anything that JD can do.

Seems to me like if this card pool were set in stone, then you may as well only play warrior/mage/priest if you want a chance to survive. BB may be the only other deck that can deal with this stuff.

[Monomax]

IMO, Nocturnal is way better since their card seem more shadow era oriented.

Random Heroes card look like copy of MTG effect :-(

[BetrayalFender]

imo, nocturnal is way better since their card seem more shadow era oriented.

Random heroes card look like copy of mtg effect :-(

yes thank you!!!

[Martin JF]

The only thing I dislike about this contest is when people from one team go and criticize the other teams stuff. Honestly, that is everyone elses job. Why don't you just defend your own effort instead?

That's just my opinion though. I'd much prefer it if the teams just focused 100% on talking about why their stuff is good/defending it instead of talking about how the other teams stuff is bad.

[mcley]

The task doesn't give a clear statement on how the task would be judged.
The task descriptions 1-6 are basically rules which each team has to obey. The only thing which looked evaluable in the task description is "7. No new card should be strictly better than an existing card for the same class".
But it's very hard to talk about balance thing without having enough test plays. And no better than one existing card? How to compare an ability card with an ally card?

That being said, I think Random Heroes has a better overall design based on synergies, new concepts and adaptability to other existing cards/decks. The only problem IMO is several cards seem OP. And the new idea of token is very different from other concepts in current Shadow Era.

As for Nocturnal Advantage, it looks like Nocturnal Advantage keeps telling people that the new designs are for milling. Yes, discarding can be used in a milling deck, but discarding itself isn't milling. Discarding is a way you can disturb your opponent and obstruct their setting up their winning strategies (like resource destruction). While milling is a stategy that you win by milling your opponent out.
Nocturnal Advantage's rationale would make people focus on milling instead of their true theme "discarding". One problem is milling isn't fun. Another problem is these new cards aren't even good enough to support a milling/discarding deck to win, especially when they put lots of efforts on balance thing which turns out to make several cards a bit underpowered.