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  1. #241
    1.27 Tournament Champion Raphael Majere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblio91 View Post
    Nahar's ruling is indisputably fair and the best way for the community to proceed.
    Nahar being OOPS is a gift to wulven from heaven. I have a lot of respect for the man.

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  2. #242
    Chat Mod SamuelJ's Avatar
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    I'd just like to play a game..

  3. #243
    Senior Member Master_Savage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nMer View Post
    Well guys don't you see that Jazz seems to have done exactly what Savage asked him to do after he missed the previous round's deadline?

    After such a request it seems strange to blame TO of the following:

    Just my 2 cents
    Since you decided to add your 2cents when noone asked for it. Ill add mine, That statement was to my opponent Deja Vu and was not directed at the TO at all and has nothing to do with this incident. So..... Yeah there you go wise guy.
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  4. #244
    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblio91 View Post
    nMer...do you honestly believe that one instance of hypocrisy or one instance of using an expletive on IRC warrants a lifetime ban from a Wulven sponsored event?
    Now you, sir, better watch what you say here accusing me of hypocrisy - Savage never denied the accusations, and if he did - he would be the hypocrite, not me! I've been doing a hard job as a TO for a year now and NEVER had anyone accused me of anything like that and I pride myself on being not only an honest and prudent TO, but more importantly person!

    I applaud BP for rallying up to protect their guildmate, but since I have PM'd Mip with the details of the incident and he then spoke to Nahar regardless of what I told him, it appears that you support rudeness & unsportsmanlike conducts! Which I do not and never will!

    I am only surprised that Wulven themselves approve such inappropriate behaviour and based on Nahar's post Wulven no longer trusts me to make my own decisions as a TO, so I am shutting down this tournament and will not run any more tournaments here ever again!

    The offender walks free without punishment and the victim is accused of hypocrisy, so it seems you're immune to reason. The truth is with me and may God be the judge for you all!


    @Nahar, as a person who watches football games you must be well aware that the referee has the right to penalize a player for unsportsmanlike conduct both against other players and himself! Sometimes such a player can be disqualified for a series of games depending on the misdeed! And, I hope you do realize that by such a ruling, you are putting polite players & TOs in a defenseless position against rude people, since they will all be forced to endure rudeness and offense from those with more flexible moral principles?!


    P.S.: I will now email support with the transfer request of 2nd place prize to Rayzie, since he guaranteed that to himself (although I'm pretty sure he'd win the 1st prize)!


    Requesting the thread to be closed!
    Feel free to transfer SC to account TJ Jazz or PM a Redeem code to me!
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  5. #245
    Official Organised Play Specialist NaharPT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post

    @Nahar, as a person who watches football games you must be well aware that the referee has the right to penalize a player for unsportsmanlike conduct both against other players and himself! Sometimes such a player can be disqualified for a series of games depending on the misdeed! And, I hope you do realize that by such a ruling, you are putting polite players & TOs in a defenseless position against rude people, since they will all be forced to endure rudeness and offense from those with more flexible moral principles?!
    Jazz, i believe you are missunderstanding up things a bit.

    I like your soccer analogy, so i will take it and move it further.
    As in soccer, a game referee is not the one deciding the punishement of the expelled player. Yes, he can kick him out of a game for some minutes (the remaining ones, till the end of the game) and granted, that's a punishment by itself, but it's up to a team of experts (a comission, might also be just one other person), later, when the game is finished, to make a final call about what happened.
    They can then decide if they keep the standart punishment to that cases, enlarge it or simply remove it!
    In most situations, they will just abide with the referee's judgement. That's also what happens in SE. Sometimes tough, that's not possible, and there's no wrong there.
    Referee's have no less quality when the comission overrules them. It happens, and it's normal.

    Enough with analogies: Mistakes might happen, there's no big deal about it.
    Everyone makes them, and you should consider them natural, and possible to happen. To you, to me, to anyone (and also to participants of tournaments).

    So, please, read carefully what i wrote on my previous post on this thread.
    I think you are jumping into conclusions.

    Wulven trusts you as a TO and I never issued a word opposite to that regard. You have a LOT of organized sponsored events to prove that.
    What was being discussed here was this specific call, because it's a very serious one, one with future repercussions and one with no evidence and no framing. Not your very good work as a TO, globally.

    I think I've explained my rulling enough, and while it doesn't seem so, i'm not keen on walls of text, so i won't do it again. We can communicate through PM further, or online, if you wish.

    Regarding this tournament, please don't take rush calls, there is no need.

    Wulven can't sponsor rushed calls, or mid-interrupted events, as i'm sure you suspect.
    Last edited by NaharPT; 07-22-2013 at 08:00 PM.
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  6. #246
    Official Organised Play Specialist NaharPT's Avatar
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    Since discussion spreaded to other thread, and i'm not sure that there is in fact a reason for this one to be closed, i think Demnchi won't mind if I re-open this one and close the other one.

    So, this continued here, and now steps in !here! again.

    Anyway, i think most of the arguments are presented already.
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  7. #247
    DP Visionary Demnchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaharPT View Post
    Since discussion spreaded to other thread, and i'm not sure that there is in fact a reason for this one to be closed, i think Demnchi won't mind if I re-open this one and close the other one.

    So, this continued here, and now steps in !here! again.

    Anyway, i think most of the arguments are presented already.
    Its fine, if you feel it should be reopened that's okay with me. I don't think I should have closed it as soon as I did anyways. As stated in the other thread, the way I was asked seemed pretty urgent so I obliged.

    Anyways, carry on.
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  8. #248
    Senior Member Mip's Avatar
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    Since this is the thread where Jazz stated "it appears that you support rudeness & unsportsmanlike conducts! " (in post 244) I would like to repost my response to this from the other thread, which can be found here: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....ence-this-post

    I would like to state my actions here and defend myself against the accusation that "it appears that you support rudeness & unsportsmanlike conducts! ".

    My first action upon seeing the post where Jazz banned Savage from the tourney and all future ones, was to make a post indicating that I did not agree with his position. My post can be found here: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....l=1#post403063

    I did this for the reason that I was the person to play the winner of the current match between Jazz and Savage and I did not wish to give the idea that I/we support the punishment. I was afraid if I played the next match it could be construed as approval upon the actions of Jazz from me, as BP's guild leader, it would also make the decision irreversable since the next round would have been played.
    I personally do not think I did anything wrong, my post was polite, I disapproved of the rudeness by Savage, but I also clearly stated that I thought the punishment was too severe.

    After this Jazz responded by sending me a PM, I will not disclose what he said, for I feel PMs should remain private, though he himself has stated that the pm said that he will not reverse his decision and various other things among which are his reasonings for his actions. I will not repeat them unless Jazz gives permission to state them or he places the message himself in the public domain.

    After I found the Tournament Organizer unwilling to change his decision which I felt was incorrect and possibly a violation of the rules for wulven sponsored tourneys, I send a PM to Nahar since I felt he was the appropriate wulven representative to state the position from wulven's point of view as our current OOPS.
    I personally do not think that notifying the OOPS of a possible problem with a wulven sponsored tourney is a bad thing, nor is asking him to clarify wulven's view.

    I disagree with the notion that Wulven puts polite players at a disadvantage, Nahar clearly stated that players causing problems in wulven sponsored tourneys can possibly be banned if requested, he merely states that this should be done with approval of OOPS after stating your case why a certain player should be banned, not solely on the TO's own judgment.

    If Jazz does not wish to have rude players in his tourney, he has several options:
    - his shadow crystals, completely his rules
    - wulven's crystals, state your case to Nahar as OOPS why to ban a certain players causing problem.

    I think neither option is a unreasonable option.

    To reiterate: I disapprove of Savage's rudeness, I disapprove of Jazz's "punishment" for this rudeness.
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  9. #249
    Senior Member Oblio91's Avatar
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    What follows is the post that was originally intended for this thread...

    @Jazz-
    If you review my post carefully you will see that I was responding to nMer who was pointing out that Savage was being hypocritical. I was agreeing with nMer's observation but stating that I didn't think that that...or any of the evidence presented was grounds for a lifetime ban from Wulven sponsored events. Nothing in the post was a personal attack or a slight against you in any way. In fact, it specifically makes a note of how difficult a job TO's like you and Nahar have adjudicating all the petty squabbles of players. The fact that you have a different opinion about how those rules of conduct should be administered than me (or Nahar, Mip, or Gondorian) does not mean I disrespect you or your efforts in general.

    You seem to be a pretty sensitive guy so please don't take the following small piece of advice as an insult. I think it would be helpful for you if you developed a slightly thicker skin. All I did was respectfully disagree with you. I don't think using an expletive warrants a lifetime ban...nor do I think you or any other TO should be granted that power (with regards to Wulven sponsored events). If a derogatory racial, sexual, religious, or ethnic slur was used...then that would be a more serious issue (and if that was the case...I apologize on behalf of BP)...but I don't think casting yourself as the victim and claiming that truth and god are on your side is helping the perception that you overstepped your authority a little bit.

    To reiterate...I never called you a hypocrite or expressed anything personal towards you.
    I hope this clarifies some things. Apologies if my original post was unclear.
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  10. #250
    DP Visionary Rayzie's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is why Savage doesn't just say sorry, Jazz say that's cool bro, and we all get the fuck on with it.
    Elder TJ

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