Retreat Bug #2 with MA

[The Haydes]

My Turn
I have a Shadow Knight in play and an MA
I use Morbid Acolyte ability on my opponent's Wild Berserker during my turn.
End my turn

Opponent's turn
Cast retreat on his own Wild Berserker
Re-cast Wild Berserker
Wild Berserker comes into play with haste (I have more allies, so typically WB would get haste)
WB doesn't get it's +2 when attacking my Shadow Knight.

So, I'm not sure which bug is here although I am 100% sure one of them is a bug:
If MA's ability is supposed to continue to work through a retreat/recast, then WB should not have come in with Haste
If MA's ability is not supposed to continue to work through a retreat/recast, then WB should have done 4 damage to my SK, not 2
aka, either you get both passive abilities or neither... but you can't get only 1.

With they way MA is worded, it would leave me to believe that MA's ability should continue to work through the retreat and recast. It would be similar to having a Rain Delay in play, as in when a valid target for the ability is put in play (in this case MA's ability only has 1 target), the ability continues to work on any valid target.

[Helio]

When you retreat an ally, all effects will be removed. Nothing lasts through a retreat.

When you cast a ally from your hand, it is new, no exceptions.

[The Haydes]

When you retreat an ally, all effects will be removed. Nothing lasts through a retreat.

When you cast a ally from your hand, it is new, no exceptions.

I'm not sure I'm fully onboard with that logic. In SE when a card goes back to your hand, the top of your deck, into your opponent's hand, or into a graveyard my interpretation was that it doesn't reset the unique card ID or make it a "new card". I always thought SE keeps track of card identity across all of these places. The only place it wouldn't would be removed from the game (like from Snare Trap). I could be wrong, but this would be how I always thought about it. Assuming the card is still tracked uniquely and I targeted that specific unique instance of WB, I would expect it to still be under the influence of MA's effect when it hits the play field again since I equate MA's ability to an ongoing enchantment type effect that will be executed ongoing anytime it has a valid target (in this case there is only 1 valid target and there is a time limit)? I'm probably also overthinking it...

[pyrogene]

I'm not sure I'm fully onboard with that logic. In SE when a card goes back to your hand, the top of your deck, into your opponent's hand, or into a graveyard my interpretation was that it doesn't reset the unique card ID or make it a "new card". I always thought SE keeps track of card identity across all of these places. The only place it wouldn't would be removed from the game (like from Snare Trap). I could be wrong, but this would be how I always thought about it. Assuming the card is still tracked uniquely and I targeted that specific unique instance of WB, I would expect it to still be under the influence of MA's effect when it hits the play field again since I equate MA's ability to an ongoing enchantment type effect that will be executed ongiong anytime it has a valid target (and in this case still under the time limit of MA's ability? I'm probably also overthinking it...

Cards always gets reset when they leave the board. If not things like Sun Blighted One would keep increasing base stats when revived and retreating then playing a damaged ally will make no difference. And how would ally attachment work if the ally gets retreated? Auto-attach on summon? Game would be really confusing and impossible to play physically.

[The Haydes]

I agree that a card which isn't in play has no modification to it whatsoever other than what's written on the card. But that doesn't mean it can't be affected by something once it enters play. I am bad with my wording, but I completely agree with you that cards outside of play are unaffected by how they left play.

I was trying to say that targeting a card doesn't rest. I can target cards in a graveyard. I can target cards in my hand. I can target cards in play. Since cards are targettable all over the game, I see no reason why a target would ever reset.

[Jeremy Ryan]

I know at least in MtG, every time a creature is cast it is counted as a new instance of that card, regardless of whether it has been on the battlefield before.

[Gondorian]

I'm not sure I'm fully onboard with that logic. In SE when a card goes back to your hand, the top of your deck, into your opponent's hand, or into a graveyard my interpretation was that it doesn't reset the unique card ID or make it a "new card".

I'm surprised you interpreted it that way, and that you don't think it's logical to work the other way.

Here's why it works the way it does:

1) A card in hand/deck/grave is not in play.
2) Changes only persist as long as a card is in play.

[The Haydes]

I'm surprised you interpreted it that way, and that you don't think it's logical to work the other way.

Here's why it works the way it does:

1) A card in hand/deck/grave is not in play.
2) Changes only persist as long as a card is in play.

I agree with this too. I could see this going either way, but just thought I'd share my flawed logic.

[The Haydes]

If targets get reset when cards move to a different area of the game then the bug here is that WB only did 2 damage to my SK.